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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=062035200-04122008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>If all you need to cite are articles, technical reports,
and the like, I'd suggest punting the book edition problem entirely for this use
case.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=062035200-04122008></SPAN><SPAN
class=062035200-04122008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=062035200-04122008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Jeff</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><BR></DIV>
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style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> data-modeling-bounces@freebase.com
[mailto:data-modeling-bounces@freebase.com] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Ed
Laurent<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 03, 2008 4:26 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
Freebase data modeling mailing list<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Data-modeling] Add
page number(s) to "Quotation"<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Great suggestions. However, linking to book edition is not an
option for journal articles. In fact, "Book edition" doesn't even include
"Written work". This has been a thorny issue for me for other reasons too and
I'm slowly understanding why "Book edition" is modeled this way but it seems
to make properties such as "Cited quotation" impossible(?) to apply to all
written works. <BR><BR>Maybe a generic "Cited quotation" type could be
implemented as a property of all written works if it had separate "Written
work cited" and "Book edition cited" properties... ? <BR><BR>-Ed<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 7:06 PM, Tadhg O'Higgins <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:tadhg@metaweb.com">tadhg@metaweb.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">+1
for this suggestion of Jeff's.<BR><BR>Perhaps a Cited Quotation type, with
all properties delegated from<BR>Quotation other than a References
property?<BR><BR>Actually, it's possible that the best way to do this would
be to create<BR>the Citation type that Tim suggested, have that take Book
Edition (plus<BR>page number, etc.), and then give Cited Quotation type a
property that<BR>accepted multiple Citation instances, so that e.g "There is
no calamity<BR>greater than lightly engaging in war." would have all the
properties it<BR>does here:<BR><A
href="http://www.freebase.com/view/guid/9202a8c04000641f800000000519187c"
target=_blank>http://www.freebase.com/view/guid/9202a8c04000641f800000000519187c</A><BR>plus
additional links to a CVT pointing to<BR><A
href="http://www.freebase.com/view/guid/9202a8c04000641f8000000009a0b66b"
target=_blank>http://www.freebase.com/view/guid/9202a8c04000641f8000000009a0b66b</A>
and a<BR>page number.<BR><BR>Tadhg<BR>
<DIV class=Ih2E3d><BR>Jeff Prucher wrote:<BR>> You could create your own
type, but delegate the relevant properties<BR>> in from the quotation
commons type. This would feed your quotes into<BR>> the quotations
commons, but allow you to add properties specific to<BR>> your
needs.<BR>><BR>> Jeff<BR>><BR>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>
*From:* <A
href="mailto:data-modeling-bounces@freebase.com">data-modeling-bounces@freebase.com</A><BR>>
[mailto:<A
href="mailto:data-modeling-bounces@freebase.com">data-modeling-bounces@freebase.com</A>]
*On Behalf Of *Ed Laurent<BR>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December
03, 2008 3:19 PM<BR>> *To:* Freebase data modeling mailing
list<BR>> *Subject:* Re: [Data-modeling] Add page number(s)
to "Quotation"<BR>><BR>> Nope, I actually want to store
quotes from published sources. I've<BR>> talked with
several editors who saw no legal issues with quoting a<BR>>
couple sentences (let me know if this is not the case and I'll<BR>>
stop). I want to do this because the quote gives more context
to a<BR>> bibliographic reference than the citation. It is
also useful when<BR>> a publication does not have an
abstract.<BR>><BR>> -Ed<BR>><BR>><BR>>
On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 5:52 PM, Tim Kientzle <<A
href="mailto:tim@metaweb.com">tim@metaweb.com</A><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Wj3C7c>> <mailto:<A
href="mailto:tim@metaweb.com">tim@metaweb.com</A>>>
wrote:<BR>><BR>> Ed,<BR>><BR>>
Sounds like what you're looking for might be
better described as a<BR>> "citation"<BR>>
or a "bibliographic reference." Agree that
there's overlap<BR>> between<BR>>
that and<BR>> the
informal use of the term "quotation," but given the different<BR>>
usages, it<BR>> may make
sense to distinguish them.<BR>><BR>> Tim
Kientzle<BR>><BR>> On Dec 3, 2008, at 2:46
PM, Ed Laurent wrote:<BR>><BR>> > Um,
I'm interpreting your responses as that I should create<BR>>
my own<BR>> >
quotation type. Most of the sources I want to quote (e.g.,<BR>>
journal<BR>> >
articles, technical reports) are only published once.<BR>>
><BR>> > I agree that
page number isn't appropriate for the cases you<BR>>
suggest<BR>> > but it is for mine
and I try to use common types whenever<BR>>
possible.<BR>> > There have been other
situations where I've argued the other<BR>>
side of<BR>> > properties needing to apply
to all instances of types so this<BR>> >
conversation has taken a somewhat amusing turn.<BR>>
><BR>> > For now I guess I'll
just model my own quotation type and try to<BR>>
> keep it similar to the common one in case there are<BR>>
suggestions for<BR>>
> merging them later.<BR>>
><BR>> > Thanks!<BR>>
> -Ed<BR>> ><BR>>
><BR>> > On
Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Jeff Prucher<BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Wj3C7c>> <<A
href="mailto:jeff@metaweb.com">jeff@metaweb.com</A> <mailto:<A
href="mailto:jeff@metaweb.com">jeff@metaweb.com</A>>> wrote:<BR>>
> I agree -- page number isn't really
applicable here.<BR>> Technically,<BR>>
> since we<BR>>
> do have distinct types for book editions, it would be<BR>>
possible to<BR>>
> link the<BR>> > source to a book
edition, rather than to a book, but this<BR>>
seems like<BR>> > a bad<BR>>
> idea. For one, it would be very hard to simply
find all the<BR>> quotes<BR>>
> from a<BR>> >
single book, since they might be spread across multiple<BR>>
editions.<BR>> > But
for<BR>> > non-book works (plays, poems,
essays, articles, etc.), a<BR>> page
number<BR>> > would<BR>>
> be completely meaningless, since we do not have
first-class<BR>> topics<BR>>
> for every<BR>> >
appearance of these types of works.<BR>>
><BR>> > The reason we used "author" as
the name of the property is<BR>>
because<BR>> > we're<BR>>
> looking for the person who authored what was said
(whether<BR>> it was<BR>>
> written or<BR>> >
spoken impromptu), rather than the person who said it.<BR>>
Although, it<BR>> >
must be<BR>> > said, this is still a
problem with movie and TV quotes, so<BR>>
maybe it<BR>> > doesn't<BR>>
> really make a difference in that regard.<BR>>
><BR>> >
Jeff<BR>> ><BR>>
> > -----Original Message-----<BR>>
> > From: <A
href="mailto:data-modeling-bounces@freebase.com">data-modeling-bounces@freebase.com</A><BR>>
<mailto:<A
href="mailto:data-modeling-bounces@freebase.com">data-modeling-bounces@freebase.com</A>><BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Ih2E3d>> > > [mailto:<A
href="mailto:data-modeling-bounces@freebase.com">data-modeling-bounces@freebase.com</A><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Wj3C7c>> <mailto:<A
href="mailto:data-modeling-bounces@freebase.com">data-modeling-bounces@freebase.com</A>>]
On Behalf Of<BR>> > > Kirrily
Robert<BR>> > > Sent: Wednesday,
December 03, 2008 1:54 PM<BR>> > > To:
Freebase data modeling mailing list<BR>> >
> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Add page number(s) to "Quotation"<BR>>
> ><BR>>
> > Wouldn't page number be dependent on edition? On what
page<BR>> > > does Alice's "Curiouser
and curiouser!" appear, for example?<BR>>
> ><BR>> > > K.<BR>>
> ><BR>> > >
On Dec 3, 2008, at 1:15 PM, Ed Laurent wrote:<BR>>
> ><BR>> > > > I'm
thinking of using the "Quotation" type to store<BR>>
quotes from<BR>> > > >
published works but need a page number property because<BR>>
> > page numbers<BR>>
> > > are often required when citing quotations. It
appears<BR>> that the<BR>>
> page<BR>> > > >
number of the quote would need to be added as a<BR>>
> > disabiguator so that<BR>>
> > > this data can be entered when the "Quotation" type is<BR>>
linked as a<BR>>
> > > property of another type. Does this seem reasonable?<BR>>
> > ><BR>>
> > > I also see that "Author" (linked to "Quotations"
property of<BR>> > > > "Person") is
a property of "Quotation", and I'm assuming<BR>>
> > that is for<BR>> > >
> instances when the quotation is not from a published source.<BR>>
> > > Otherwise, it is adding
denormalization. If this is the<BR>> >
> case, wouldn't<BR>> > > >
another name be more appropriate than "Author" (e.g.,<BR>>
> > "Quoted person")<BR>>
> > > to distinguish it from "Author" of quoted
publications?<BR>> > > ><BR>>
> > > -Ed
_______________________________________________<BR>>
> > > Data-modeling mailing list<BR>>
> > > <A
href="mailto:Data-modeling@freebase.com">Data-modeling@freebase.com</A><BR></DIV></DIV>>
<mailto:<A
href="mailto:Data-modeling@freebase.com">Data-modeling@freebase.com</A>><BR>
<DIV class=Ih2E3d>> > > > <A
href="http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling"
target=_blank>http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling</A><BR>>
> ><BR>>
> > --<BR>> > > Kirrily
Robert<BR>> > > Freebase Community
Director<BR></DIV>> > > <A
href="mailto:kirrily@metaweb.com">kirrily@metaweb.com</A> <mailto:<A
href="mailto:kirrily@metaweb.com">kirrily@metaweb.com</A>><BR>
<DIV class=Ih2E3d>> > > <A
href="http://freebase.com/" target=_blank>http://freebase.com/</A><BR>>
> ><BR>>
> ><BR>> > ><BR>>
> ><BR>> > >
_______________________________________________<BR>>
> > Data-modeling mailing list<BR></DIV>>
> > <A
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