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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=796581123-01052008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>The problem with either delegating the common properties or
abstracting them to a more general type is that the crucial "performance" types
are semantically different for film and TV. While there are essentially
equivalent roles (perhaps director, producer, writer, maybe "other crew"),
performances for film are fairly simple -- they connect an actor, film, and
character or appearance type. For television, they connect an actor and
character/appearance type to tv episode, tv season, and tv series, and further
make a distinction between regular appearances and guest
appearances.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=796581123-01052008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=796581123-01052008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I'm not necessarily opposed to abstracting out common
properties, but these differences between the performance roles should be
considered.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=796581123-01052008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=796581123-01052008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Jeff</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> data-modeling-bounces@freebase.com
[mailto:data-modeling-bounces@freebase.com] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Robert
Cook<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 30, 2008 8:49 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Freebase
data modeling mailing list<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Data-modeling] Made-for-TV
Movies<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>I'm most intrigued by Tim's solution. Film and TV as media
are morphing rapidly right now and I suspect will become less distinguished
from each other over time. They really are historical points on a
spectrum that is becoming filled in. This "video production" type could
hold properties for:
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>/film/film</DIV>
<DIV>/tv/tv_program</DIV>
<DIV>/tv/tv_episode</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Unfortunately, with our current system of "supporting types" we can't
handle this situation well. For instance, if the apparent "director"
property of film really comes from the supporting type
<I>/media/video_productio</I><I>n</I>, its expected type would be
<I>/media/director</I> rather than <I>/film/director</I>. This would
mean that if you entered a director into a film in the freebase interface, it
the instance on the other end would be typed <I>/media/director</I> not<I>
/film/director</I> as you would expect.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>We're about to roll out a new feature called "property delegation" that
will replace the supporting types mechanism and will handle the expected types
correctly. I suspect that this video jumble might be one of the first
things we fix.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>R</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Apr 29, 2008, at 6:56 PM, Tim Kientzle wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Sounds like there's confusion between "what
something is" (video <BR>production?) versus "how it's
distributed" (TV, DVD, movie theater, <BR>streaming video).
Perhaps we need to add /media/video_production to <BR>hold the
information common to all types of video (who was in it, who <BR>paid
for it, who scripted it, who filmed it, who edited it, when it <BR>was
filmed, when it was released, what book it's based on)?<BR><BR><BR>On Apr
29, 2008, at 6:45 PM, Faye Li wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Hi,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">There are about 200 topics in Freebase that are
typed as both /film/ <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">film<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">and /tv/tv_program, a co-typing that was
previously deemed <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">incompatible.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Bryan Cheung and I looked through a few instances
of them, and some <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">are<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">clearly mistyped, some are feature-length TV
episodes or miniseries<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">arguably marketed as movies, while others are
made-for-TV movies that<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">qualify for both types.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">So, does the co-typing of /film/film and
/tv/tv_program make sense? <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Does<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">it apply to feature-length TV episodes and
miniseries in addition to<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">made-for-TV movies, or only some of the above?
Should there emerge a <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">new<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">type altogether (/film/tv_movie? /tv/tv_movie?)
for it?<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">The problem of cotyping is that the two types, for
obvious reasons, <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">have<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">overlapping properties: producers, actors, etc.
I'm not as concerned<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">about having to enter the same data twice as I am
about the type<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">implication of doing so, where the same actor then
gets cotyped as <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">both<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">/tv/actor and /film/actor, just for being in a TV
movie! Ditto for the<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">producer. On the other hand, /tv/tv_program has no
director property,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">which is attached to /tv/tv_series_episode, and
/film/film has no TV<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">channel property that is part of the data about a
TV movie. So <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">without a<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">new type, both types are needed to capture all the
data. And by the <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">way,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">when I say I'm not *as* concerned about having to
enter the same data<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">twice, I mean I am concerned. ;)<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Examples:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">1) The three-hour miniseries "Battlestar
Galactica" that was a pilot <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">to<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">the new series, co-typed with the unholy combo of
/film/film,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">/tv/tv_program, and
tv/tv_series_episode:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><A
href="http://freebase.com/view/guid/9202a8c04000641f80000000009aaffd">http://freebase.com/view/guid/9202a8c04000641f80000000009aaffd</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">2) "Love Comes Softly", a Hallmark Channel movie
original starring<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Katherine Heigl, poster child (the movie, not her)
for the new TV <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Movie<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">type if there would be one, currently typed as
/film/film:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><A
href="http://freebase.com/view/en/love_comes_softly">http://freebase.com/view/en/love_comes_softly</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">3) Too many BBC drama series of "Jane Eyre", such
as this one, cotyped<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">as both /film/film and
/tv/tv_program:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><A
href="http://freebase.com/view/guid/9202a8c04000641f8000000000c551bf">http://freebase.com/view/guid/9202a8c04000641f8000000000c551bf</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">-- Faye<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
type="cite">_______________________________________________<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Data-modeling mailing list<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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