[Data-modeling] Products with ingredients
Ed Laurent
spatial.db at gmail.com
Tue Jun 30 21:19:13 UTC 2009
+1
-Ed
On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Tom Morris <tfmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for recreating the sandbox. I tried to follow up on this
> earlier today and it had been blown away in the refresh.
>
> I agree with Faye. Looks good.
>
> Tom
>
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Jeff Prucher<jeff at metaweb.com> wrote:
> > And one last time:
> >
> http://www.sandbox-freebase.com/view/user/typelibrarian/default_domain/views
> > /cheerios_ingredients
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
> >> [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Prucher
> >> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:38 PM
> >> To: 'Freebase data modeling mailing list'
> >> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Products with ingredients
> >>
> >> Here's a revised schema with the derives from/derivative
> >> properties. Lemme know whatcha think:
> >>
> >> <http://www.sandbox-freebase.com/view/user/typelibrarian/defau
> >> lt_domain/view
> >> s/cranberry_almond_crunch_ingredients>
> >>
> >> Jeff
> >>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
> >> > [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] On Behalf Of Faye Harris
> >> > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 2:24 PM
> >> > To: Freebase data modeling mailing list
> >> > Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Products with ingredients
> >> >
> >> > +1 on adding the parent-child relationship so that we'd have both
> >> > "variety of" and "derives from" properties, instead of just
> >> the former
> >> > for both purposes.
> >> >
> >> > -- Faye
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Jeff Prucher wrote:
> >> > > There are three examples upthread that led to the phylogeny
> >> > pattern,
> >> > > each of which is a slightly different case:
> >> > >
> >> > > (variety) <--> (generalization)
> >> > > Milled corn <--> Corn
> >> > > Sodium lauryl sulfate (from coconut oil) <--> Sodium
> >> lauryl sulfate
> >> > > Enriched flour (foo, bar, bazz, fazz) <--> Enriched flour
> >> > >
> >> > > Faye's division fits this pretty well:
> >> > > Milled corn is derived from corn; SLS (from coconut) is a
> >> > variety of
> >> > > SLS, and is also derived from coconut; enriched flour
> >> > (etc., usw) is a
> >> > > variety of enriched flour. (Reviewing this thread, I note that Ed
> >> > > suggested a Processed Ingredient type way back at the outset.)
> >> > >
> >> > > The big question is, would we be asking for trouble by adding a
> >> > > parent/child relationship to this, in addition to the two
> >> phylogeny
> >> > > patterns? Or should we just punt it for now?
> >> > >
> >> > > Jeff
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >> -----Original Message-----
> >> > >> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
> >> > >> [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] On Behalf Of
> >> Tom Morris
> >> > >> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 10:37 AM
> >> > >> To: Freebase data modeling mailing list
> >> > >> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Products with ingredients
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I'm with Faye. It seems very weird to have rice flour
> >> and rice so
> >> > >> strongly related. I don't consider rice flour to be a
> >> > generalization
> >> > >> of rice at all. About the only places where they would
> >> > potentially
> >> > >> interchangeable would be for nutritional information or
> >> > for allergies.
> >> > >> You might be able to substitute basmati rice for jasmine
> >> > rice if you
> >> > >> didn't care too much about the difference in texture or
> >> > maintaining
> >> > >> cultural authenticity, but if you substituted rice flour (of any
> >> > >> variety), you'd be in a whole heap of trouble.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> The examples in the schema descriptions (yay for
> >> > >> descriptions!) seem to have the same problem. You can get
> >> > lavender
> >> > >> oil out of a lavender plant, but they aren't
> >> > generalizations of each
> >> > >> other. If anything, the generalization would be aromatic oil or
> >> > >> fragrance or something.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> For most applications, it's more useful to have things linked
> >> > >> together because of common properties rather than
> >> because they are
> >> > >> made from the same source material or by the same process.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> -1 for making this even more obscure by linking in Material.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Tom
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 9:02 PM, Faye Harris
> >> > <faye at metaweb.com> wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Very cool!
> >> > >>
> >> > >> That rice flour is called a "variety of" rice in the schema is
> >> > >> indeed very odd.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Based on the sandbox examples, this schema seems to use
> >> > "variety of"
> >> > >> for two types of relationships:
> >> > >> 1) variety of, e.g. brown rice is a "variety of" rice
> >> > >> 2) derived from, e.g. rice flour is "derived from" rice
> >> > >>
> >> > >> The former relationship is categorical, the latter relates to
> >> > >> post-processing.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> -- Faye
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Jeff Prucher wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> OK, I've got the double-phylogeny pattern
> >> > working now. Take a look
> >> > >> here:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> http://www.sandbox-freebase.com/type/schema/business/product_i
> >> > >>
> >> > > ngredient
> >> > >
> >> > >>
> >> > >> And here's a table view of the ingredients of a
> >> > breakfast cereal I
> >> > >> found in
> >> > >> the office kitchen:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> http://www.sandbox-freebase.com/view/user/jeff/default_domain/
> >> > >>
> >> > > views/cranberr
> >> > >
> >> > >> y_almond_crunch_ingredients
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I'm not really happy with the "variety of" and
> >> > "generalization of"
> >> > >> names,
> >> > >> but I'm not coming up with anything better. Any
> >> > suggestions would
> >> > >> be most
> >> > >> welcome.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Jeff
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> -----Original Message-----
> >> > >> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
> >> > >>
> >> > >> [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] On Behalf Of
> >> > Jeff Prucher
> >> > >> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 11:42 AM
> >> > >> To: Freebase data modeling mailing list
> >> > >> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Products
> >> > with ingredients
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> ----- "Faye Harris" <faye at metaweb.com>
> >> > <mailto:faye at metaweb.com>
> >> > >> wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> From: "Faye Harris"
> >> > >> <faye at metaweb.com> <mailto:faye at metaweb.com>
> >> > >> To: "Freebase data modeling
> >> > >> mailing list"
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> <data-modeling at freebase.com>
> >> > >> <mailto:data-modeling at freebase.com>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009
> >> > >> 2:59:19 PM GMT -08:00
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> US/Canada Pacific
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling]
> >> > >> Products with ingredients
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Jeff Prucher wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> ----- "Robert Cook"
> >> > >> <robert at metaweb.com> <mailto:robert at metaweb.com> wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> One solution would be
> >> > >> to create a topic with a long name -- enter
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> it
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> exactly as it appears
> >> > >> on the label such as "Enriched flour -
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> (wheat,
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> niacin, iron, baby
> >> > >> powder, sawdust, DDT)".
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> This would answer.
> >> > >> Anyone else have any comments or
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> thoughts on this
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> before I load the schema?
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> The main problem with this is
> >> > >> you can't arrive at the products that
> >> > >> use enriched flour by clicking
> >> > >> on a property link from a single
> >> > >> "enriched
> >> > >>
> >> > >> flour" topic. Rather, you have
> >> > >> to do a keyword search for products
> >> > >> based on matching all the
> >> > >> various "enriched flour - (foo, bar, bat,
> >> > >> baz)"
> >> > >> ingredient topics with the
> >> > >> words "enriched" and "flour".
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> That's quite
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> a loss in queriability.> >
> >> > >> The schema is fine to get us
> >> > >> started, but we're still going
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> to try to
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> put together some phylogeny
> >> > >> pattern in place (in the near future)
> >> > >> right?
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I plan to add a phylogeny pattern
> >> before moving the schema to
> >> > >> freebase.com, which should help
> >> queryability. It doesn't
> >> > >> address the fact that topics named
> >> things like "enriched
> >> > >> flour (that, that, the other thing)"
> >> > >> are exceedingly ugly,
> >> > >> however (no-one said it was called
> >> "prettybase.com", though).
> >> > >> I was going to post a revised schema
> >> to sandbox, with the
> >> > >> double-phylogeny pattern suggested by
> >> Robert, but it got
> >> > >> horribly munged in the process. I'll
> >> try to fix it, but it
> >> > >> might not be till next week.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Jeff
> >> > >> _______________________________________________
> >> > >> Data-modeling mailing list
> >> > >> Data-modeling at freebase.com
> >> > >>
> >> > >> http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> _______________________________________________
> >> > >> Data-modeling mailing list
> >> > >> Data-modeling at freebase.com
> >> > >> http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> _______________________________________________
> >> > >> Data-modeling mailing list
> >> > >> Data-modeling at freebase.com
> >> > >> http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Data-modeling mailing list
> >> > > Data-modeling at freebase.com
> >> > > http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Data-modeling mailing list
> >> > Data-modeling at freebase.com
> >> > http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
> >> >
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Data-modeling at freebase.com
> > http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
> >
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