[Data-modeling] Products with ingredients
Jeff Prucher
jeff at metaweb.com
Wed Jun 24 21:17:54 UTC 2009
There are three examples upthread that led to the phylogeny pattern, each of
which is a slightly different case:
(variety) <--> (generalization)
Milled corn <--> Corn
Sodium lauryl sulfate (from coconut oil) <--> Sodium lauryl sulfate Enriched
flour (foo, bar, bazz, fazz) <--> Enriched flour
Faye's division fits this pretty well:
Milled corn is derived from corn; SLS (from coconut) is a variety of SLS,
and is also derived from coconut; enriched flour (etc., usw) is a variety of
enriched flour. (Reviewing this thread, I note that Ed suggested a Processed
Ingredient type way back at the outset.)
The big question is, would we be asking for trouble by adding a parent/child
relationship to this, in addition to the two phylogeny patterns? Or should
we just punt it for now?
Jeff
> -----Original Message-----
> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
> [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] On Behalf Of Tom Morris
> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 10:37 AM
> To: Freebase data modeling mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Products with ingredients
>
> I'm with Faye. It seems very weird to have rice flour and rice so
> strongly related. I don't consider rice flour to be a generalization
> of rice at all. About the only places where they would potentially
> interchangeable would be for nutritional information or for allergies.
> You might be able to substitute basmati rice for jasmine rice if you
> didn't care too much about the difference in texture or maintaining
> cultural authenticity, but if you substituted rice flour (of any
> variety), you'd be in a whole heap of trouble.
>
>
> The examples in the schema descriptions (yay for
> descriptions!) seem to have the same problem. You can get
> lavender oil out of a lavender plant, but they aren't
> generalizations of each other. If anything, the
> generalization would be aromatic oil or fragrance or something.
>
> For most applications, it's more useful to have things linked
> together because of common properties rather than because
> they are made from the same source material or by the same process.
>
> -1 for making this even more obscure by linking in Material.
>
> Tom
>
> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 9:02 PM, Faye Harris <faye at metaweb.com> wrote:
>
>
> Very cool!
>
> That rice flour is called a "variety of" rice in the
> schema is indeed very odd.
>
> Based on the sandbox examples, this schema seems to use
> "variety of" for two types of relationships:
> 1) variety of, e.g. brown rice is a "variety of" rice
> 2) derived from, e.g. rice flour is "derived from" rice
>
> The former relationship is categorical, the latter
> relates to post-processing.
>
> -- Faye
>
>
>
> Jeff Prucher wrote:
>
> OK, I've got the double-phylogeny pattern
> working now. Take a look here:
>
> http://www.sandbox-freebase.com/type/schema/business/product_i
ngredient
>
> And here's a table view of the ingredients of a
> breakfast cereal I found in
> the office kitchen:
>
> http://www.sandbox-freebase.com/view/user/jeff/default_domain/
views/cranberr
> y_almond_crunch_ingredients
>
> I'm not really happy with the "variety of" and
> "generalization of" names,
> but I'm not coming up with anything better. Any
> suggestions would be most
> welcome.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
>
> [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Prucher
> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 11:42 AM
> To: Freebase data modeling mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Products
> with ingredients
>
>
> ----- "Faye Harris" <faye at metaweb.com>
> <mailto:faye at metaweb.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> From: "Faye Harris"
> <faye at metaweb.com> <mailto:faye at metaweb.com>
> To: "Freebase data modeling
> mailing list"
>
>
> <data-modeling at freebase.com>
> <mailto:data-modeling at freebase.com>
>
>
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009
> 2:59:19 PM GMT -08:00
>
>
> US/Canada Pacific
>
>
> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling]
> Products with ingredients
>
> Jeff Prucher wrote:
>
>
> ----- "Robert Cook"
> <robert at metaweb.com> <mailto:robert at metaweb.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> One solution would be
> to create a topic with a long name -- enter
>
>
> it
>
>
> exactly as it appears
> on the label such as "Enriched flour -
>
>
> (wheat,
>
>
> niacin, iron, baby
> powder, sawdust, DDT)".
>
>
>
> This would answer.
> Anyone else have any comments or
>
>
> thoughts on this
>
>
> before I load the schema?
>
>
>
>
>
> The main problem with this is
> you can't arrive at the products that
> use enriched flour by clicking
> on a property link from a single
> "enriched
>
> flour" topic. Rather, you have
> to do a keyword search for products
> based on matching all the
> various "enriched flour - (foo, bar, bat,
> baz)"
> ingredient topics with the
> words "enriched" and "flour".
>
>
> That's quite
>
>
> a loss in queriability.> >
> The schema is fine to get us
> started, but we're still going
>
>
> to try to
>
>
> put together some phylogeny
> pattern in place (in the near future)
> right?
>
>
>
>
> I plan to add a phylogeny pattern
> before moving the schema to
> freebase.com, which should help
> queryability. It doesn't
> address the fact that topics named
> things like "enriched
> flour (that, that, the other thing)"
> are exceedingly ugly,
> however (no-one said it was called
> "prettybase.com", though).
> I was going to post a revised schema
> to sandbox, with the
> double-phylogeny pattern suggested by
> Robert, but it got
> horribly munged in the process. I'll
> try to fix it, but it
> might not be till next week.
>
> Jeff
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