[Data-modeling] Tweaks to the food domain

Wed Jun 11 22:17:04 UTC 2008

Looks like we've got pretty good consensus for stripping the properties off
of the Beverage type and keeping it as a bucket.  I'll write up the tasks to
make this happen. We'll send out final warnings/reminders before actually
removing any types. 

Does anyone have any thoughts on the second part of my question, regarding
the design of the whisk(e)y type?  I'm in favor of splitting a "distillery"
type of off "whisky" (current instances are a mix of both), similar to the
beer/brewery and wine/wine producer types.

Jeff

> -----Original Message-----
> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com 
> [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] On Behalf Of Alec Flett
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 5:23 PM
> To: Freebase data modeling mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Tweaks to the food domain
> 
> Count me as one vote for keeping the type bucket - I think 
> there is some value right now in having at least ONE bit of 
> metadata on a beverage to indicate that it's a beverage, at 
> least to reserve it for future use - maybe someday we'll have 
> something to indicate which beverages are carbonated, which 
> beverages are liquid versions of non- beverages (i.e. 
> smoothies!) etc..
> 
> Alec
> 
> On Jun 10, 2008, at 3:00 PM, Danny Hillis wrote:
> 
> > I agree that the properties should be moved. I am generally 
> a skeptic 
> > propertyless types just used as just buckets, but I don't they hurt 
> > much.  I think it is ok to keep them around when they already exist.
> > -Danny
> >
> > On Jun 9, 2008, at 4:52 PM, Jeff Prucher wrote:
> >> I'll count this as one vote for keep the type as a bucket, 
> but move 
> >> the properties elsewhere (which is my inclination, too).  
> If I hear 
> >> nothing else about beverages, I'll start moving the 
> properties around 
> >> (or killing them outright).  I'm going to skip "liquid" for now -- 
> >> there's been some discussion about materials science stuff, and I 
> >> think that general liquids might have more to do with that.
> >> Plus whatever properties liquids have is going to vary at 
> different 
> >> level than we're talking about for beverages -- i.e., different 
> >> whiskies will have different specific gravities and whatnot.
> >>
> >> Jeff
> >>
> >> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com 
> >> [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
> >> ] On Behalf Of Ed Laurent
> >> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 4:16 PM
> >> To: Freebase data modeling mailing list
> >> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Tweaks to the food domain
> >>
> >> Cheese and crackers that's a good question!!
> >>
> >> No properties come to mind besides those that refer to 
> texture, color 
> >> and taste but I'm not sure how those should be modeled.
> >> Beverage should probably be co-typed with a generic Liquid type if 
> >> you don't mind that kind of overkill.
> >>
> >> -Ed
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 6:52 PM, Jeff Prucher <jeff at metaweb.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> Do you think that "beverage" should have any properties at all, or 
> >> should it just be a bucket to stick classes of things you 
> can drink 
> >> (e.g., whiskey, milk, water, fruit juice)?
> >>
> >> Jeff
> >>
> >> PS -- Mmmm. Whiskey cheese. 
> >> http://www.cheesesupply.com/product_info.php/products_id/270
> >>
> >> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com 
> >> [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
> >> ] On Behalf Of Ed Laurent
> >> Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 12:48 AM
> >> To: Freebase data modeling mailing list
> >> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Tweaks to the food domain
> >>
> >> It looks like some of the Beverage properties are duplicating what 
> >> should be associated with Consumer_product and Alcoholic_beverage.
> >>
> >> I would describe Beverage with very generic properties. 
> For example, 
> >> "Jack Daniel's Whiskey Single Barrel 94@ 750ML" would be a 
> >> Consumer_product linked to "Jack Daniel's Whiskey Single Barrel 94"
> >> that is linked to Whiskey, which is co-typed with Beverage and 
> >> Alcoholic_beverage.
> >>
> >> Similarly, "Milk" would be typed with Beverage. I could see "Skim 
> >> milk" as a topic of a "Milk type" enumerated type or go 
> the route of 
> >> adding properties to a Milk_product type that could be co-typed 
> >> within Cheese and used to describe "Mozzarella cheese".
> >>
> >> Another route would be to develop the schema so that the consumer 
> >> product "Fresh Mozzarella" would be typed with 
> Consumer_product and 
> >> include a link to a Cheese CVT that includes properties such as 
> >> Cheese_type, Milk_source (e.g., cow, goat), etc.
> >>
> >> Somehow I went from Beverage and Whiskey to Cheese...
> >>
> >> -Ed
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Jeff Prucher <jeff at metaweb.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> There are bunch of types for various beverages in the food domain, 
> >> some of which could use a little fixing up. (Most of these 
> were also 
> >> made by me -- mea culpa!)
> >>
> >> 1) Beverage 
> <http://www.freebase.com/tools/schema/food/beverage>. I'm 
> >> wondering if this type is even necessary. The instances 
> are a mix of 
> >> general beverage varieties ("Cocktail") and specific varieties 
> >> ("Newcastle Brown Ale"), so at the very least this should be 
> >> normalized and cleaned up. And both them "manufacturer" 
> and "place of 
> >> origin" properties seem redundant with some of the more 
> fully-fleshed 
> >> out beverage schemas, like beer and wine.  And the "color" 
> property 
> >> is probably pointless.
> >>
> >>
> >> 2) Whisky: This has a similar problem as beverage, in that the 
> >> instances include both distilleries and products. I think that a 
> >> simple fix would be to add a "distillery" property (and type), and 
> >> reserve the "whisky"
> >> type for
> >> the specific whiskys (similar to the beer/brewery relationship).
> >> There's
> >> probably a lot more that could be done with whiskies, but 
> for now I'd 
> >> just like to clean up the current model.
> >>
> >> What do you all think?
> >>
> >> Jeff Prucher
> >>
> >>
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