[Data-modeling] unsubscribe
François Lamotte
paperjam at gmail.com
Wed Jun 11 21:08:59 UTC 2008
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 9:57 PM, <data-modeling-request at freebase.com> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: New properties for the "Visual Art" domain "Color" type
> (Jeff Prucher)
> 2. Re: New properties for the "Visual Art" domain "Color" type
> (Robert Cook)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 12:49:19 -0700
> From: "Jeff Prucher" <jeff at metaweb.com>
> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] New properties for the "Visual Art"
> domain "Color" type
> To: "'Freebase data modeling mailing list'"
> <data-modeling at freebase.com>
> Message-ID: <002901c8cbfc$3d173f70$bc01a8c0 at p4>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> +1 for Pantone and CMYK properties. As long as we're getting technical, we
> might as well go all the way.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
>> [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] On Behalf Of Faye Li
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 7:14 PM
>> To: Freebase data modeling mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] New properties for the "Visual
>> Art" domain "Color" type
>>
>> Hi Ed,
>>
>> The wavelength and frequency are for spectral colors only (as
>> noted in the property description). I had them named
>> "Spectral Wavelength Range (nm)" and "Spectral Frequency
>> Range (THz)" at first which was a mouthful. I'll be happy to
>> change them back if that would remove ambiguity as to what
>> I'm referring to, light or pigment. Clarity trumps brevity.
>>
>> I want to draw the distinction between color and color
>> product. A red BMW is not going to match the color of a red
>> Honda. The blue in IBM's logo is going to match the blue in
>> HP's logo. Those colors are only the same in name, and when
>> prefixed with their brand or corporate identity or other
>> context, it's obvious to most people that they're different.
>> That should address most of the naming "conflicts". CMYK and
>> Pantone properties can also be added to allow exact
>> specification of reflective colors.
>>
>> Aside from that, isn't color one of those things defined and
>> governed by some international standard? I'll do a little
>> research on that tonight.
>>
>> -- Faye
>>
>>
>> Ed Laurent wrote:
>> > Great job Faye! Your model even addresses ROY G BIV's first initial
>> > (i.e., wavelength and frequency range). Do your properties
>> apply only
>> > to frequencies of light and not to the pigments that
>> reflect it? For
>> > example, how would you use this information to whip up a can of red
>> > paint?
>> >
>> > I agree with you that some reds are red no matter how detailed the
>> > description. A user can accurately specify red as a
>> property and not
>> > need to know red's physical properties to do so, but the
>> link should
>> > take them to that information if they desire. If we take Gordon's
>> > approach instead, how big is the box of Crayolas that is used to
>> > single out simple colors without detailed properties and
>> what property
>> > do you use to distinguish the the simple color scheme from
>> the complex
>> > one? Is it only the domain they are in?
>> >
>> > Similarly, conflicts in naming conventions might be an
>> issue. How do
>> > you handle two interpretations of "Blood Red"? Can there be
>> a link to
>> > the namer or naming convention publication?
>> >
>> > -Ed
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 4:50 AM, Faye Li <faye at metaweb.com
>> > <mailto:faye at metaweb.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Interesting idea.
>> >
>> > The properties I added are all taken from the Wikipedia infobox
>> > for colors. See "Red" here:
>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red
>> >
>> > Are you saying that we should model "casual" uses of color
>> > separately from scientific or professional uses of
>> color? Although
>> > the current Color type has carried no properties, it's used as a
>> > property's expected type in quite a few types: sport teams,
>> > fraternities/sororities, and material in fiction, etc. These
>> > everyday usage examples of color are not so concerned with the
>> > scientific side of color science as say, a visual device
>> > manufacturer. I'm open to expanding and exploring the color data
>> > into a full-fledged domain on its own, but I think it
>> makes sense
>> > to have only one "Red" topic for the color to carry all its
>> > information, regardless of where it is.
>> >
>> > -- Faye
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Gordon Mackenzie" <gordon at metaweb.com
>> > <mailto:gordon at metaweb.com>>
>> > To: "Freebase data modeling mailing list"
>> > <data-modeling at freebase.com <mailto:data-modeling at freebase.com>>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:28:09 AM (GMT-0800)
>> America/Los_Angeles
>> > Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] New properties for the "Visual Art"
>> > domain "Color" type
>> >
>> > I think maybe Color should be it's on domain, a Visual
>> Perception
>> > Domain? These properties look more appropriate to an
>> > Energy/Wavelengths?
>> >
>> > Here's a little somethin I was messing with earlier:
>> >
>> > http://www.freebase.com/view/user/gmackenz/color
>> >
>> > Color schemes, color systems, theories/models.
>> >
>> > Additive and Subtractive color methods for different media
>> > (printing, video, etc.)
>> >
>> > http://www.freebase.com/view/user/gmackenz/color/color_type
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Faye Li" <faye at metaweb.com <mailto:faye at metaweb.com>>
>> > To: data-modeling at freebase.com
>> <mailto:data-modeling at freebase.com>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:54:11 AM (GMT-0800)
>> > America/Los_Angeles
>> > Subject: [Data-modeling] New properties for the "Visual Art"
>> > domain "Color" type
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > In response to user spatialed's suggestion (from a while back),
>> > I've finally gotten to adding some properties to the
>> empty "Color"
>> > type on Sandbox for review:
>> >
>> > http://sandbox.freebase.com/tools/schema/visual_art/color
>> >
>> > 1) Wavelength Range (nm), expected type "Integer Range", for
>> > spectral wavelength range of the color, in nanometers.
>> > 2) Frequency Range (THz), expected type "Integer Range", for
>> > spectral frequency range of the color, in terahertz.
>> > 3) sRGB Value, expected type (new type) "RGB
>> Representation", for
>> > 24-bit RGB representation of the color. Valid range is 0-255
>> > inclusive for each dimension.
>> > 4) Hex Triplet, expected type "Machine readable string", for
>> > 6-digit RGB value in hex with the conventional pound sign # as a
>> > prefix.
>> >
>> > All properties have the "restrict to one value" option checked.
>> >
>> > As an example, I've filled out the "Red" topic with values from
>> > Wikipedia:
>> > http://sandbox.freebase.com/view/en/red
>> >
>> > For now, I've left out HSV hexacone and CIE XYZ color spaces
>> > (what, you can't convert color representations between color
>> > spaces in your head?), but if desired, they can be
>> modeled without
>> > too much effort.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > -- Faye
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Data-modeling mailing list
>> > Data-modeling at freebase.com <mailto:Data-modeling at freebase.com>
>> > http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Data-modeling mailing list
>> > Data-modeling at freebase.com <mailto:Data-modeling at freebase.com>
>> > http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Data-modeling mailing list
>> > Data-modeling at freebase.com <mailto:Data-modeling at freebase.com>
>> > http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > --
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Data-modeling mailing list
>> > Data-modeling at freebase.com
>> > http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 12:57:46 -0700
> From: Robert Cook <robert at metaweb.com>
> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] New properties for the "Visual Art"
> domain "Color" type
> To: Freebase data modeling mailing list <data-modeling at freebase.com>
> Message-ID: <98D33BD3-3CC6-4D4C-AB0F-9AECA36F6143 at metaweb.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Pantone colors might be a problem. From wikipedia:
>
>> Intellectual property
>>
>> Pantone asserts that their lists of color numbers and pigment values
>> are the intellectual property of Pantone and free use of the list is
>> not allowed.[9] This is frequently held as a reason why Pantone
>> colors cannot be supported in Open Source software such as GNU Image
>> Manipulation Program (GIMP) and are not often found in low-cost
>> software. It has been claimed that "it seems as if the company is
>> being intentionally unclear" but it is acknowledged that "the
>> simplest claim would be trademark misappropriation or dilution
>> towards someone who produced a color palette marketed as compatible
>> with Pantone's".[10] However, Pantone palettes supplied by printer
>> manufacturers can be obtained freely, and depending on supplier, do
>> not come with usage restriction beyond sales ban on hard copy of the
>> palette.
>>
>> Pantone also possesses patent 5,734,800, a six-color Hexachrome
>> printing system.
>
>
> On Jun 11, 2008, at 12:49 PM, Jeff Prucher wrote:
>
>> +1 for Pantone and CMYK properties. As long as we're getting
>> technical, we
>> might as well go all the way.
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
>>> [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] On Behalf Of Faye Li
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 7:14 PM
>>> To: Freebase data modeling mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] New properties for the "Visual
>>> Art" domain "Color" type
>>>
>>> Hi Ed,
>>>
>>> The wavelength and frequency are for spectral colors only (as
>>> noted in the property description). I had them named
>>> "Spectral Wavelength Range (nm)" and "Spectral Frequency
>>> Range (THz)" at first which was a mouthful. I'll be happy to
>>> change them back if that would remove ambiguity as to what
>>> I'm referring to, light or pigment. Clarity trumps brevity.
>>>
>>> I want to draw the distinction between color and color
>>> product. A red BMW is not going to match the color of a red
>>> Honda. The blue in IBM's logo is going to match the blue in
>>> HP's logo. Those colors are only the same in name, and when
>>> prefixed with their brand or corporate identity or other
>>> context, it's obvious to most people that they're different.
>>> That should address most of the naming "conflicts". CMYK and
>>> Pantone properties can also be added to allow exact
>>> specification of reflective colors.
>>>
>>> Aside from that, isn't color one of those things defined and
>>> governed by some international standard? I'll do a little
>>> research on that tonight.
>>>
>>> -- Faye
>>>
>>>
>>> Ed Laurent wrote:
>>>> Great job Faye! Your model even addresses ROY G BIV's first initial
>>>> (i.e., wavelength and frequency range). Do your properties
>>> apply only
>>>> to frequencies of light and not to the pigments that
>>> reflect it? For
>>>> example, how would you use this information to whip up a can of red
>>>> paint?
>>>>
>>>> I agree with you that some reds are red no matter how detailed the
>>>> description. A user can accurately specify red as a
>>> property and not
>>>> need to know red's physical properties to do so, but the
>>> link should
>>>> take them to that information if they desire. If we take Gordon's
>>>> approach instead, how big is the box of Crayolas that is used to
>>>> single out simple colors without detailed properties and
>>> what property
>>>> do you use to distinguish the the simple color scheme from
>>> the complex
>>>> one? Is it only the domain they are in?
>>>>
>>>> Similarly, conflicts in naming conventions might be an
>>> issue. How do
>>>> you handle two interpretations of "Blood Red"? Can there be
>>> a link to
>>>> the namer or naming convention publication?
>>>>
>>>> -Ed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 4:50 AM, Faye Li <faye at metaweb.com
>>>> <mailto:faye at metaweb.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Interesting idea.
>>>>
>>>> The properties I added are all taken from the Wikipedia infobox
>>>> for colors. See "Red" here:
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red
>>>>
>>>> Are you saying that we should model "casual" uses of color
>>>> separately from scientific or professional uses of
>>> color? Although
>>>> the current Color type has carried no properties, it's used as a
>>>> property's expected type in quite a few types: sport teams,
>>>> fraternities/sororities, and material in fiction, etc. These
>>>> everyday usage examples of color are not so concerned with the
>>>> scientific side of color science as say, a visual device
>>>> manufacturer. I'm open to expanding and exploring the color data
>>>> into a full-fledged domain on its own, but I think it
>>> makes sense
>>>> to have only one "Red" topic for the color to carry all its
>>>> information, regardless of where it is.
>>>>
>>>> -- Faye
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Gordon Mackenzie" <gordon at metaweb.com
>>>> <mailto:gordon at metaweb.com>>
>>>> To: "Freebase data modeling mailing list"
>>>> <data-modeling at freebase.com <mailto:data-modeling at freebase.com>>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:28:09 AM (GMT-0800)
>>> America/Los_Angeles
>>>> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] New properties for the "Visual Art"
>>>> domain "Color" type
>>>>
>>>> I think maybe Color should be it's on domain, a Visual
>>> Perception
>>>> Domain? These properties look more appropriate to an
>>>> Energy/Wavelengths?
>>>>
>>>> Here's a little somethin I was messing with earlier:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.freebase.com/view/user/gmackenz/color
>>>>
>>>> Color schemes, color systems, theories/models.
>>>>
>>>> Additive and Subtractive color methods for different media
>>>> (printing, video, etc.)
>>>>
>>>> http://www.freebase.com/view/user/gmackenz/color/color_type
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Faye Li" <faye at metaweb.com <mailto:faye at metaweb.com>>
>>>> To: data-modeling at freebase.com
>>> <mailto:data-modeling at freebase.com>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:54:11 AM (GMT-0800)
>>>> America/Los_Angeles
>>>> Subject: [Data-modeling] New properties for the "Visual Art"
>>>> domain "Color" type
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> In response to user spatialed's suggestion (from a while back),
>>>> I've finally gotten to adding some properties to the
>>> empty "Color"
>>>> type on Sandbox for review:
>>>>
>>>> http://sandbox.freebase.com/tools/schema/visual_art/color
>>>>
>>>> 1) Wavelength Range (nm), expected type "Integer Range", for
>>>> spectral wavelength range of the color, in nanometers.
>>>> 2) Frequency Range (THz), expected type "Integer Range", for
>>>> spectral frequency range of the color, in terahertz.
>>>> 3) sRGB Value, expected type (new type) "RGB
>>> Representation", for
>>>> 24-bit RGB representation of the color. Valid range is 0-255
>>>> inclusive for each dimension.
>>>> 4) Hex Triplet, expected type "Machine readable string", for
>>>> 6-digit RGB value in hex with the conventional pound sign # as a
>>>> prefix.
>>>>
>>>> All properties have the "restrict to one value" option checked.
>>>>
>>>> As an example, I've filled out the "Red" topic with values from
>>>> Wikipedia:
>>>> http://sandbox.freebase.com/view/en/red
>>>>
>>>> For now, I've left out HSV hexacone and CIE XYZ color spaces
>>>> (what, you can't convert color representations between color
>>>> spaces in your head?), but if desired, they can be
>>> modeled without
>>>> too much effort.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> -- Faye
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Data-modeling mailing list
>>>> Data-modeling at freebase.com <mailto:Data-modeling at freebase.com>
>>>> http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Data-modeling mailing list
>>>> Data-modeling at freebase.com <mailto:Data-modeling at freebase.com>
>>>> http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Data-modeling mailing list
>>>> Data-modeling at freebase.com <mailto:Data-modeling at freebase.com>
>>>> http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Data-modeling mailing list
>>>> Data-modeling at freebase.com
>>>> http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Data-modeling mailing list
>>> Data-modeling at freebase.com
>>> http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
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