[Data-modeling] unsubscribe

François Lamotte paperjam at gmail.com
Wed Jun 11 21:08:59 UTC 2008


On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 9:57 PM,  <data-modeling-request at freebase.com> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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>   1. Re: New properties for the "Visual Art"   domain  "Color" type
>      (Jeff Prucher)
>   2. Re: New properties for the "Visual Art"   domain  "Color" type
>      (Robert Cook)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 12:49:19 -0700
> From: "Jeff Prucher" <jeff at metaweb.com>
> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] New properties for the "Visual Art"
>        domain  "Color" type
> To: "'Freebase data modeling mailing list'"
>        <data-modeling at freebase.com>
> Message-ID: <002901c8cbfc$3d173f70$bc01a8c0 at p4>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="US-ASCII"
>
> +1 for Pantone and CMYK properties.  As long as we're getting technical, we
> might as well go all the way.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
>> [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] On Behalf Of Faye Li
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 7:14 PM
>> To: Freebase data modeling mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] New properties for the "Visual
>> Art" domain "Color" type
>>
>> Hi Ed,
>>
>> The wavelength and frequency are for spectral colors only (as
>> noted in the property description). I had them named
>> "Spectral Wavelength Range (nm)" and "Spectral Frequency
>> Range (THz)" at first which was a mouthful. I'll be happy to
>> change them back if that would remove ambiguity as to what
>> I'm referring to, light or pigment. Clarity trumps brevity.
>>
>> I want to draw the distinction between color and color
>> product. A red BMW is not going to match the color of a red
>> Honda. The blue in IBM's logo is going to match the blue in
>> HP's logo. Those colors are only the same in name, and when
>> prefixed with their brand or corporate identity or other
>> context, it's obvious to most people that they're different.
>> That should address most of the naming "conflicts". CMYK and
>> Pantone properties can also be added to allow exact
>> specification of reflective colors.
>>
>> Aside from that, isn't color one of those things defined and
>> governed by some international standard? I'll do a little
>> research on that tonight.
>>
>> -- Faye
>>
>>
>> Ed Laurent wrote:
>> > Great job Faye! Your model even addresses ROY G BIV's first initial
>> > (i.e., wavelength and frequency range). Do your properties
>> apply only
>> > to frequencies of light and not to the pigments that
>> reflect it? For
>> > example, how would you use this information to whip up a can of red
>> > paint?
>> >
>> > I agree with you that some reds are red no matter how detailed the
>> > description. A user can accurately specify red as a
>> property and not
>> > need to know red's physical properties to do so, but the
>> link should
>> > take them to that information if they desire. If we take Gordon's
>> > approach instead, how big is the box of Crayolas that is used to
>> > single out simple colors without detailed properties and
>> what property
>> > do you use to distinguish the the simple color scheme from
>> the complex
>> > one? Is it only the domain they are in?
>> >
>> > Similarly, conflicts in naming conventions might be an
>> issue. How do
>> > you handle two interpretations of "Blood Red"? Can there be
>> a link to
>> > the namer or naming convention publication?
>> >
>> > -Ed
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 4:50 AM, Faye Li <faye at metaweb.com
>> > <mailto:faye at metaweb.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> >     Interesting idea.
>> >
>> >     The properties I added are all taken from the Wikipedia infobox
>> >     for colors. See "Red" here:
>> >     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red
>> >
>> >     Are you saying that we should model "casual" uses of color
>> >     separately from scientific or professional uses of
>> color? Although
>> >     the current Color type has carried no properties, it's used as a
>> >     property's expected type in quite a few types: sport teams,
>> >     fraternities/sororities, and material in fiction, etc. These
>> >     everyday usage examples of color are not so concerned with the
>> >     scientific side of color science as say, a visual device
>> >     manufacturer. I'm open to expanding and exploring the color data
>> >     into a full-fledged domain on its own, but I think it
>> makes sense
>> >     to have only one "Red" topic for the color to carry all its
>> >     information, regardless of where it is.
>> >
>> >     -- Faye
>> >
>> >
>> >     ----- Original Message -----
>> >     From: "Gordon Mackenzie" <gordon at metaweb.com
>> >     <mailto:gordon at metaweb.com>>
>> >     To: "Freebase data modeling mailing list"
>> >     <data-modeling at freebase.com <mailto:data-modeling at freebase.com>>
>> >     Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:28:09 AM (GMT-0800)
>> America/Los_Angeles
>> >     Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] New properties for the "Visual Art"
>> >     domain "Color" type
>> >
>> >     I think maybe Color should be it's on domain, a Visual
>> Perception
>> >     Domain? These properties look more appropriate to an
>> >     Energy/Wavelengths?
>> >
>> >     Here's a little somethin I was messing with earlier:
>> >
>> >     http://www.freebase.com/view/user/gmackenz/color
>> >
>> >     Color schemes, color systems, theories/models.
>> >
>> >     Additive and Subtractive color methods for different media
>> >     (printing, video, etc.)
>> >
>> >     http://www.freebase.com/view/user/gmackenz/color/color_type
>> >
>> >     ----- Original Message -----
>> >     From: "Faye Li" <faye at metaweb.com <mailto:faye at metaweb.com>>
>> >     To: data-modeling at freebase.com
>> <mailto:data-modeling at freebase.com>
>> >     Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:54:11 AM (GMT-0800)
>> >     America/Los_Angeles
>> >     Subject: [Data-modeling] New properties for the "Visual Art"
>> >     domain "Color" type
>> >
>> >     Hi,
>> >
>> >     In response to user spatialed's suggestion (from a while back),
>> >     I've finally gotten to adding some properties to the
>> empty "Color"
>> >     type on Sandbox for review:
>> >
>> >     http://sandbox.freebase.com/tools/schema/visual_art/color
>> >
>> >     1) Wavelength Range (nm), expected type "Integer Range", for
>> >     spectral wavelength range of the color, in nanometers.
>> >     2) Frequency Range (THz), expected type "Integer Range", for
>> >     spectral frequency range of the color, in terahertz.
>> >     3) sRGB Value, expected type (new type) "RGB
>> Representation", for
>> >     24-bit RGB representation of the color. Valid range is 0-255
>> >     inclusive for each dimension.
>> >     4) Hex Triplet, expected type "Machine readable string", for
>> >     6-digit RGB value in hex with the conventional pound sign # as a
>> >     prefix.
>> >
>> >     All properties have the "restrict to one value" option checked.
>> >
>> >     As an example, I've filled out the "Red" topic with values from
>> >     Wikipedia:
>> >     http://sandbox.freebase.com/view/en/red
>> >
>> >     For now, I've left out HSV hexacone and CIE XYZ color spaces
>> >     (what, you can't convert color representations between color
>> >     spaces in your head?), but if desired, they can be
>> modeled without
>> >     too much effort.
>> >
>> >     Thanks,
>> >     -- Faye
>> >     _______________________________________________
>> >     Data-modeling mailing list
>> >     Data-modeling at freebase.com <mailto:Data-modeling at freebase.com>
>> >     http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
>> >
>> >     _______________________________________________
>> >     Data-modeling mailing list
>> >     Data-modeling at freebase.com <mailto:Data-modeling at freebase.com>
>> >     http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
>> >
>> >     _______________________________________________
>> >     Data-modeling mailing list
>> >     Data-modeling at freebase.com <mailto:Data-modeling at freebase.com>
>> >     http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > --
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Data-modeling mailing list
>> > Data-modeling at freebase.com
>> > http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Data-modeling at freebase.com
>> http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 12:57:46 -0700
> From: Robert Cook <robert at metaweb.com>
> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] New properties for the "Visual Art"
>        domain  "Color" type
> To: Freebase data modeling mailing list <data-modeling at freebase.com>
> Message-ID: <98D33BD3-3CC6-4D4C-AB0F-9AECA36F6143 at metaweb.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Pantone colors might be a problem.  From wikipedia:
>
>> Intellectual property
>>
>> Pantone asserts that their lists of color numbers and pigment values
>> are the intellectual property of Pantone and free use of the list is
>> not allowed.[9] This is frequently held as a reason why Pantone
>> colors cannot be supported in Open Source software such as GNU Image
>> Manipulation Program (GIMP) and are not often found in low-cost
>> software. It has been claimed that "it seems as if the company is
>> being intentionally unclear" but it is acknowledged that "the
>> simplest claim would be trademark misappropriation or dilution
>> towards someone who produced a color palette marketed as compatible
>> with Pantone's".[10] However, Pantone palettes supplied by printer
>> manufacturers can be obtained freely, and depending on supplier, do
>> not come with usage restriction beyond sales ban on hard copy of the
>> palette.
>>
>> Pantone also possesses patent 5,734,800, a six-color Hexachrome
>> printing system.
>
>
> On Jun 11, 2008, at 12:49 PM, Jeff Prucher wrote:
>
>> +1 for Pantone and CMYK properties.  As long as we're getting
>> technical, we
>> might as well go all the way.
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
>>> [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] On Behalf Of Faye Li
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 7:14 PM
>>> To: Freebase data modeling mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] New properties for the "Visual
>>> Art" domain "Color" type
>>>
>>> Hi Ed,
>>>
>>> The wavelength and frequency are for spectral colors only (as
>>> noted in the property description). I had them named
>>> "Spectral Wavelength Range (nm)" and "Spectral Frequency
>>> Range (THz)" at first which was a mouthful. I'll be happy to
>>> change them back if that would remove ambiguity as to what
>>> I'm referring to, light or pigment. Clarity trumps brevity.
>>>
>>> I want to draw the distinction between color and color
>>> product. A red BMW is not going to match the color of a red
>>> Honda. The blue in IBM's logo is going to match the blue in
>>> HP's logo. Those colors are only the same in name, and when
>>> prefixed with their brand or corporate identity or other
>>> context, it's obvious to most people that they're different.
>>> That should address most of the naming "conflicts". CMYK and
>>> Pantone properties can also be added to allow exact
>>> specification of reflective colors.
>>>
>>> Aside from that, isn't color one of those things defined and
>>> governed by some international standard? I'll do a little
>>> research on that tonight.
>>>
>>> -- Faye
>>>
>>>
>>> Ed Laurent wrote:
>>>> Great job Faye! Your model even addresses ROY G BIV's first initial
>>>> (i.e., wavelength and frequency range). Do your properties
>>> apply only
>>>> to frequencies of light and not to the pigments that
>>> reflect it? For
>>>> example, how would you use this information to whip up a can of red
>>>> paint?
>>>>
>>>> I agree with you that some reds are red no matter how detailed the
>>>> description. A user can accurately specify red as a
>>> property and not
>>>> need to know red's physical properties to do so, but the
>>> link should
>>>> take them to that information if they desire. If we take Gordon's
>>>> approach instead, how big is the box of Crayolas that is used to
>>>> single out simple colors without detailed properties and
>>> what property
>>>> do you use to distinguish the the simple color scheme from
>>> the complex
>>>> one? Is it only the domain they are in?
>>>>
>>>> Similarly, conflicts in naming conventions might be an
>>> issue. How do
>>>> you handle two interpretations of "Blood Red"? Can there be
>>> a link to
>>>> the namer or naming convention publication?
>>>>
>>>> -Ed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 4:50 AM, Faye Li <faye at metaweb.com
>>>> <mailto:faye at metaweb.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>    Interesting idea.
>>>>
>>>>    The properties I added are all taken from the Wikipedia infobox
>>>>    for colors. See "Red" here:
>>>>    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red
>>>>
>>>>    Are you saying that we should model "casual" uses of color
>>>>    separately from scientific or professional uses of
>>> color? Although
>>>>    the current Color type has carried no properties, it's used as a
>>>>    property's expected type in quite a few types: sport teams,
>>>>    fraternities/sororities, and material in fiction, etc. These
>>>>    everyday usage examples of color are not so concerned with the
>>>>    scientific side of color science as say, a visual device
>>>>    manufacturer. I'm open to expanding and exploring the color data
>>>>    into a full-fledged domain on its own, but I think it
>>> makes sense
>>>>    to have only one "Red" topic for the color to carry all its
>>>>    information, regardless of where it is.
>>>>
>>>>    -- Faye
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    ----- Original Message -----
>>>>    From: "Gordon Mackenzie" <gordon at metaweb.com
>>>>    <mailto:gordon at metaweb.com>>
>>>>    To: "Freebase data modeling mailing list"
>>>>    <data-modeling at freebase.com <mailto:data-modeling at freebase.com>>
>>>>    Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:28:09 AM (GMT-0800)
>>> America/Los_Angeles
>>>>    Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] New properties for the "Visual Art"
>>>>    domain "Color" type
>>>>
>>>>    I think maybe Color should be it's on domain, a Visual
>>> Perception
>>>>    Domain? These properties look more appropriate to an
>>>>    Energy/Wavelengths?
>>>>
>>>>    Here's a little somethin I was messing with earlier:
>>>>
>>>>    http://www.freebase.com/view/user/gmackenz/color
>>>>
>>>>    Color schemes, color systems, theories/models.
>>>>
>>>>    Additive and Subtractive color methods for different media
>>>>    (printing, video, etc.)
>>>>
>>>>    http://www.freebase.com/view/user/gmackenz/color/color_type
>>>>
>>>>    ----- Original Message -----
>>>>    From: "Faye Li" <faye at metaweb.com <mailto:faye at metaweb.com>>
>>>>    To: data-modeling at freebase.com
>>> <mailto:data-modeling at freebase.com>
>>>>    Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:54:11 AM (GMT-0800)
>>>>    America/Los_Angeles
>>>>    Subject: [Data-modeling] New properties for the "Visual Art"
>>>>    domain "Color" type
>>>>
>>>>    Hi,
>>>>
>>>>    In response to user spatialed's suggestion (from a while back),
>>>>    I've finally gotten to adding some properties to the
>>> empty "Color"
>>>>    type on Sandbox for review:
>>>>
>>>>    http://sandbox.freebase.com/tools/schema/visual_art/color
>>>>
>>>>    1) Wavelength Range (nm), expected type "Integer Range", for
>>>>    spectral wavelength range of the color, in nanometers.
>>>>    2) Frequency Range (THz), expected type "Integer Range", for
>>>>    spectral frequency range of the color, in terahertz.
>>>>    3) sRGB Value, expected type (new type) "RGB
>>> Representation", for
>>>>    24-bit RGB representation of the color. Valid range is 0-255
>>>>    inclusive for each dimension.
>>>>    4) Hex Triplet, expected type "Machine readable string", for
>>>>    6-digit RGB value in hex with the conventional pound sign # as a
>>>>    prefix.
>>>>
>>>>    All properties have the "restrict to one value" option checked.
>>>>
>>>>    As an example, I've filled out the "Red" topic with values from
>>>>    Wikipedia:
>>>>    http://sandbox.freebase.com/view/en/red
>>>>
>>>>    For now, I've left out HSV hexacone and CIE XYZ color spaces
>>>>    (what, you can't convert color representations between color
>>>>    spaces in your head?), but if desired, they can be
>>> modeled without
>>>>    too much effort.
>>>>
>>>>    Thanks,
>>>>    -- Faye
>>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>>    Data-modeling mailing list
>>>>    Data-modeling at freebase.com <mailto:Data-modeling at freebase.com>
>>>>    http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
>>>>
>>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>>    Data-modeling mailing list
>>>>    Data-modeling at freebase.com <mailto:Data-modeling at freebase.com>
>>>>    http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
>>>>
>>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>>    Data-modeling mailing list
>>>>    Data-modeling at freebase.com <mailto:Data-modeling at freebase.com>
>>>>    http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Data-modeling mailing list
>>>> Data-modeling at freebase.com
>>>> http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Data-modeling mailing list
>>> Data-modeling at freebase.com
>>> http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Data-modeling at freebase.com
>> http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
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