[Data-modeling] Unfinished work / lost work

Jeff Prucher jeff at metaweb.com
Wed Dec 31 19:48:59 UTC 2008 

Here's the new type: http://www.freebase.com/view/media_common/lost_work
I put in a single property for "reason for loss", which expects the type
"Cause of loss".

Jeff 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com 
> [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] On Behalf Of Phil 
> Gochenour
> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 11:12 AM
> To: Freebase data modeling mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Unfinished work / lost work
> 
> I think these would generally be considered "loss by 
> accident," though one could also consider "destruction 
> through hostilities" or something fairly broad to cover 
> examples of destruction through book burnings, which are 
> usually carried out by hostile forces (Conquistadors, Nazis, etc.).
> 
> p
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ed Laurent" <spatial.db at gmail.com>
> To: "Freebase data modeling mailing list" <data-modeling at freebase.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 11:03:03 AM GMT -08:00 
> US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Unfinished work / lost work
> 
> 
> There are also large losses of works to be considered such as 
> those that occurred at the Library of Alexandria: 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Destruction
> _of_the_Library 
> 
> -Ed 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 1:47 PM, Robert Cook < 
> robert at metaweb.com > wrote: 
> 
> 
> My rule of thumb in cases like this is that you should always 
> attempt to coarse-grain classify with a link to a topic type 
> and, if necessary, include a free-text field for 
> human-readable refinement. I don't think using just a text 
> field is a good idea. Every time I've done this, I've grown 
> to regret the decision as I eventually see patterns emerge. 
> It's always to much work to fix the representation at that point. 
> 
> R 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Dec 31, 2008, at 10:36 AM, Phil Gochenour wrote: 
> 
> > I think that there would only be a couple general 
> categories of "cause 
> > of loss," like destruction by author, death of author 
> (which really an 
> > unfinished work, not a lost one), loss by accident, and no copies 
> > extant. You might need something like "lost in litigation limbo" to 
> > cover situations like someone dying and their estate not 
> releasing a 
> > work. If you try to get more specific than a a few general 
> categories, 
> > then I think Faye's point is an important one, in that you begin to 
> > lose the structured data. More specific information can always be 
> > included in the description area.
> > 
> > p
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jeff Prucher" < jeff at metaweb.com >
> > To: "Freebase data modeling mailing list" < 
> data-modeling at freebase.com 
> > >
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 10:28:05 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada 
> > Pacific
> > Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Unfinished work / lost work
> > 
> > A "cause of loss" type might work; more specific information can 
> > always be included in the description.
> > 
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
> >> [mailto: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com ] On Behalf Of Faye 
> >> Harris
> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 6:17 PM
> >> To: Freebase data modeling mailing list
> >> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Unfinished work / lost work
> >> 
> >> I think a "bucket type" model for "lost work" would be just fine. 
> >> Would like to see a property for "cause of loss", although I'm not 
> >> sure what the expected type should be.
> >> 
> >> If a new type were to be created (e.g. "lost work cause"), 
> it'd allow 
> >> for queries like "find all works lost by fire". On the 
> other hand, if 
> >> it were left as raw text, more specific info (though less 
> >> semantically
> >> parse-able) can be entered, e.g. "Lost on board the 
> Titantic when it 
> >> sank", "Damaged beyond repair when recovered from theft by 
> Inspector 
> >> Clouseau".
> >> 
> >> -- Faye
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Jeff Prucher wrote: 
> >>> I've created the "unifinished work" type
> >>> 
> >> ( 
> https://www.freebase.com/view/media_common/unfinished_work ), and 
> >> left
> >>> it as a bucket for now: I think the co-typing should be pretty 
> >>> self-explanatory, actually. I would, however, like to find
> >> a way to
> >>> model attempts to complete these works. The model should 
> be easy (a 
> >>> property on "unfinished work" called something like 
> "completions by 
> >>> other hands"), but I'm not sure what to call the expected type.
> >>> "Completed unfinished work" would get the point accross,
> >> although it
> >>> sounds oxymoronic. 
> >>> 
> >>> I also have a question about the proposed "lost work" type. 
> >> Should it
> >>> just be a bucket, like "unfinished work", and expect that the 
> >>> instances will be co-typed appropriately? If so, "Cardenio" would 
> >>> show up in the list of "works written" for Shakespeare,
> >> rather than in
> >>> some kind of "lost works" property. This might be fine, I
> >> just wanted
> >>> to raist the question. 
> >>> 
> >>> Jeff
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> --------------------------------------------------------------
> >> ----------
> >>> *From:* data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
> >>> [mailto: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com ] *On Behalf
> >> Of *Ed Laurent
> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:25 AM
> >>> *To:* Freebase data modeling mailing list
> >>> *Subject:* Re: [Data-modeling] Unfinished work / lost work
> >>> 
> >>> How about adding a text field to the bucket to store info 
> associated 
> >>> with why the work was unfinished and/or why there is 
> confusion over 
> >>> what kind of work should be co-typed
> >> (e.g., Jeff's
> >>> Fitzgerald example). That way we can assess how to better 
> store that 
> >>> information after some unfinished works have been
> >> entered and
> >>> evaluated for commonalities. While it's good to develop
> >> the schema
> >>> when the ideas are fresh, this one may benefit from
> >> some notes on
> >>> how the type is used over time. 
> >>> 
> >>> -Ed
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:36 PM, Jeff Prucher < jeff at metaweb.com
> >>> <mailto: jeff at metaweb.com >> wrote: 
> >>> 
> >>> Could be a candidate for the Media Common domain,
> >> if it's just
> >>> going to be a
> >>> bucket. There are lots of unfinished musical works, as well. 
> >>> I assume that
> >>> Unfinished Work would then also be typed with whatever relevant 
> >>> types (like Written Work) applied, so that you could see the 
> >>> creator, dates, subjects, etc. So would "The Last Tycoon" also be 
> >>> typed as a
> >> Book, even
> >>> though
> >>> Fizgerald never published it as such, and may not otherwise have 
> >>> been long enough to even be a book? I think that would work
> >> for Raymond
> >>> Chandler's
> >>> unfinished novel "The Poodle Springs Story", so
> >> that one could
> >>> assert that
> >>> Philip Marlowe was one of the characters. Otherwise, I 
> don't see a 
> >>> way to make such an assertion.
> >>> 
> >>> Jeff
> >>> 
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
> >>> <mailto: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com >
> >>>> [mailto: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
> >>> <mailto: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com >] On
> >> Behalf Of Faye Li
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:48 AM
> >>>> To: data-modeling at freebase.com
> >>> <mailto: data-modeling at freebase.com >
> >>>> Subject: [Data-modeling] Unfinished work / lost work
> >>>> 
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>> 
> >>>> I'd like to have a "Unfinished Work" type in the
> >> Book domain
> >>>> for capturing unfinished written works. F. Scott
> >> Fitzgerald's
> >>>> "The Last Tycoon" is an example. It's more
> >> interesting when
> >>>> another author finishes the work -- something more common with 
> >>>> short stories. Other than that I can't think of any 
> other property 
> >>>> this type would have.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Along the same line I'd like to have a "Lost Work" type in the 
> >>>> Publishing domain to apply to written works that no 
> longer exist. 
> >>>> An example here is Shakespeare's "Love's Labour's Won", which is 
> >>>> believed to be a sequel to "Love's Labour's Lost".
> >>>> 
> >>>> An equivalent type "Lost Artwork" seems to make
> >> sense in the
> >>>> Visual Art domain as well. 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Anyone else interested in these types? Are they
> >> enough to be
> >>>> types in the commons, or more suitable in bases? 
> >>>> 
> >>>> -- Faye
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Data-modeling mailing list
> >>>> Data-modeling at freebase.com
> >> <mailto: Data-modeling at freebase.com >
> >>>> http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
> >>>> 
> >>> 
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> -
> >>> --
> >>> 
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> >> 
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