[Data-modeling] Unfinished work / lost work

Wed Dec 31 19:47:15 UTC 2008

Some of these causes are more purposeful than implied through "accident" or
"hostilities". It sounds like "Purposeful destruction" would suffice for
this model. Another general cause is "Loss by theft", where a work may still
exist but it's whereabouts are unknown.

A separate CVT could be created to store the when and by whom/what for a
"Destroyed work" type that would cover purposeful, accidental, and
incidental destruction. "Stolen work" could be modeled to include both
"Stolen" and "Returned" date properties. "Destroyed work" and "Stolen work"
could be modeled in a more general domain as they could be applied to any
work of art (e.g., "The Scream").

-Ed

On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Phil Gochenour <phil at metaweb.com> wrote:

> I think these would generally be considered "loss by accident," though one
> could also consider "destruction through hostilities" or something fairly
> broad to cover examples of destruction through book burnings, which are
> usually carried out by hostile forces (Conquistadors, Nazis, etc.).
>
> p
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ed Laurent" <spatial.db at gmail.com>
> To: "Freebase data modeling mailing list" <data-modeling at freebase.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 11:03:03 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Unfinished work / lost work
>
>
> There are also large losses of works to be considered such as those that
> occurred at the Library of Alexandria:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Destruction_of_the_Library
>
> -Ed
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 1:47 PM, Robert Cook < robert at metaweb.com > wrote:
>
>
> My rule of thumb in cases like this is that you should always attempt
> to coarse-grain classify with a link to a topic type and, if
> necessary, include a free-text field for human-readable refinement. I
> don't think using just a text field is a good idea. Every time I've
> done this, I've grown to regret the decision as I eventually see
> patterns emerge. It's always to much work to fix the representation
> at that point.
>
> R
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 31, 2008, at 10:36 AM, Phil Gochenour wrote:
>
> > I think that there would only be a couple general categories of
> > "cause of loss," like destruction by author, death of author (which
> > really an unfinished work, not a lost one), loss by accident, and no
> > copies extant. You might need something like "lost in litigation
> > limbo" to cover situations like someone dying and their estate not
> > releasing a work. If you try to get more specific than a a few
> > general categories, then I think Faye's point is an important one,
> > in that you begin to lose the structured data. More specific
> > information can always be included in the description area.
> >
> > p
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jeff Prucher" < jeff at metaweb.com >
> > To: "Freebase data modeling mailing list" < data-modeling at freebase.com >
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 10:28:05 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada
> > Pacific
> > Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Unfinished work / lost work
> >
> > A "cause of loss" type might work; more specific information can
> > always be
> > included in the description.
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
> >> [mailto: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com ] On Behalf Of Faye Harris
> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 6:17 PM
> >> To: Freebase data modeling mailing list
> >> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Unfinished work / lost work
> >>
> >> I think a "bucket type" model for "lost work" would be just
> >> fine. Would like to see a property for "cause of loss",
> >> although I'm not sure what the expected type should be.
> >>
> >> If a new type were to be created (e.g. "lost work cause"),
> >> it'd allow for queries like "find all works lost by fire". On
> >> the other hand, if it were left as raw text, more specific
> >> info (though less semantically
> >> parse-able) can be entered, e.g. "Lost on board the Titantic
> >> when it sank", "Damaged beyond repair when recovered from
> >> theft by Inspector Clouseau".
> >>
> >> -- Faye
> >>
> >>
> >> Jeff Prucher wrote:
> >>> I've created the "unifinished work" type
> >>>
> >> ( https://www.freebase.com/view/media_common/unfinished_work ),
> >> and left
> >>> it as a bucket for now: I think the co-typing should be pretty
> >>> self-explanatory, actually. I would, however, like to find
> >> a way to
> >>> model attempts to complete these works. The model should be easy (a
> >>> property on "unfinished work" called something like "completions by
> >>> other hands"), but I'm not sure what to call the expected type.
> >>> "Completed unfinished work" would get the point accross,
> >> although it
> >>> sounds oxymoronic.
> >>>
> >>> I also have a question about the proposed "lost work" type.
> >> Should it
> >>> just be a bucket, like "unfinished work", and expect that the
> >>> instances will be co-typed appropriately? If so, "Cardenio" would
> >>> show up in the list of "works written" for Shakespeare,
> >> rather than in
> >>> some kind of "lost works" property. This might be fine, I
> >> just wanted
> >>> to raist the question.
> >>>
> >>> Jeff
> >>>
> >>>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------------
> >> ----------
> >>> *From:* data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
> >>> [mailto: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com ] *On Behalf
> >> Of *Ed Laurent
> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:25 AM
> >>> *To:* Freebase data modeling mailing list
> >>> *Subject:* Re: [Data-modeling] Unfinished work / lost work
> >>>
> >>> How about adding a text field to the bucket to store info
> >>> associated with why the work was unfinished and/or why there is
> >>> confusion over what kind of work should be co-typed
> >> (e.g., Jeff's
> >>> Fitzgerald example). That way we can assess how to better store
> >>> that information after some unfinished works have been
> >> entered and
> >>> evaluated for commonalities. While it's good to develop
> >> the schema
> >>> when the ideas are fresh, this one may benefit from
> >> some notes on
> >>> how the type is used over time.
> >>>
> >>> -Ed
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:36 PM, Jeff Prucher < jeff at metaweb.com
> >>> <mailto: jeff at metaweb.com >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Could be a candidate for the Media Common domain,
> >> if it's just
> >>> going to be a
> >>> bucket. There are lots of unfinished musical works, as well.
> >>> I assume that
> >>> Unfinished Work would then also be typed with whatever
> >>> relevant types (like
> >>> Written Work) applied, so that you could see the creator,
> >>> dates, subjects,
> >>> etc. So would "The Last Tycoon" also be typed as a
> >> Book, even
> >>> though
> >>> Fizgerald never published it as such, and may not otherwise
> >>> have been long
> >>> enough to even be a book? I think that would work
> >> for Raymond
> >>> Chandler's
> >>> unfinished novel "The Poodle Springs Story", so
> >> that one could
> >>> assert that
> >>> Philip Marlowe was one of the characters. Otherwise, I don't
> >>> see a way to
> >>> make such an assertion.
> >>>
> >>> Jeff
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
> >>> <mailto: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com >
> >>>> [mailto: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
> >>> <mailto: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com >] On
> >> Behalf Of Faye Li
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:48 AM
> >>>> To: data-modeling at freebase.com
> >>> <mailto: data-modeling at freebase.com >
> >>>> Subject: [Data-modeling] Unfinished work / lost work
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> I'd like to have a "Unfinished Work" type in the
> >> Book domain
> >>>> for capturing unfinished written works. F. Scott
> >> Fitzgerald's
> >>>> "The Last Tycoon" is an example. It's more
> >> interesting when
> >>>> another author finishes the work -- something more common
> >>>> with short stories. Other than that I can't think of any
> >>>> other property this type would have.
> >>>>
> >>>> Along the same line I'd like to have a "Lost Work" type in
> >>>> the Publishing domain to apply to written works that no
> >>>> longer exist. An example here is Shakespeare's "Love's
> >>>> Labour's Won", which is believed to be a sequel to "Love's
> >>>> Labour's Lost".
> >>>>
> >>>> An equivalent type "Lost Artwork" seems to make
> >> sense in the
> >>>> Visual Art domain as well.
> >>>>
> >>>> Anyone else interested in these types? Are they
> >> enough to be
> >>>> types in the commons, or more suitable in bases?
> >>>>
> >>>> -- Faye
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Data-modeling mailing list
> >>>> Data-modeling at freebase.com
> >> <mailto: Data-modeling at freebase.com >
> >>>> http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
> >>
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