[Data-modeling] Unfinished work / lost work

Ed Laurent spatial.db at gmail.com
Wed Dec 31 19:03:03 UTC 2008 

There are also large losses of works to be considered such as those that
occurred at the Library of Alexandria:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Destruction_of_the_Library

-Ed


On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 1:47 PM, Robert Cook <robert at metaweb.com> wrote:

> My rule of thumb in cases like this is that you should always attempt
> to coarse-grain classify with a link to a topic type and, if
> necessary, include a free-text field for human-readable refinement.  I
> don't think using just a text field is a good idea.  Every time I've
> done this, I've grown to regret the decision as I eventually see
> patterns emerge.  It's always to much work to fix the representation
> at that point.
>
> R
>
> On Dec 31, 2008, at 10:36 AM, Phil Gochenour wrote:
>
> > I think that there would only be a couple general categories of
> > "cause of loss," like destruction by author, death of author (which
> > really an unfinished work, not a lost one), loss by accident, and no
> > copies extant. You might need something like "lost in litigation
> > limbo" to cover situations like someone dying and their estate not
> > releasing a work. If you try to get more specific than a a few
> > general categories, then I think Faye's point is an important one,
> > in that you begin to lose the structured data. More specific
> > information can always be included in the description area.
> >
> > p
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jeff Prucher" <jeff at metaweb.com>
> > To: "Freebase data modeling mailing list" <data-modeling at freebase.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 10:28:05 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada
> > Pacific
> > Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Unfinished work / lost work
> >
> > A "cause of loss" type might work; more specific information can
> > always be
> > included in the description.
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
> >> [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] On Behalf Of Faye Harris
> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 6:17 PM
> >> To: Freebase data modeling mailing list
> >> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Unfinished work / lost work
> >>
> >> I think a "bucket type" model for "lost work" would be just
> >> fine. Would like to see a property for "cause of loss",
> >> although I'm not sure what the expected type should be.
> >>
> >> If a new type were to be created (e.g. "lost work cause"),
> >> it'd allow for queries like "find all works lost by fire". On
> >> the other hand, if it were left as raw text, more specific
> >> info (though less semantically
> >> parse-able) can be entered, e.g. "Lost on board the Titantic
> >> when it sank", "Damaged beyond repair when recovered from
> >> theft by Inspector Clouseau".
> >>
> >> -- Faye
> >>
> >>
> >> Jeff Prucher wrote:
> >>> I've created the "unifinished work" type
> >>>
> >> (https://www.freebase.com/view/media_common/unfinished_work),
> >> and left
> >>> it as a bucket for now: I think the co-typing should be pretty
> >>> self-explanatory, actually.  I would, however, like to find
> >> a way to
> >>> model attempts to complete these works. The model should be easy (a
> >>> property on "unfinished work" called something like "completions by
> >>> other hands"), but I'm not sure what to call the expected type.
> >>> "Completed unfinished work" would get the point accross,
> >> although it
> >>> sounds oxymoronic.
> >>>
> >>> I also have a question about the proposed "lost work" type.
> >> Should it
> >>> just be a bucket, like "unfinished work", and expect that the
> >>> instances will be co-typed appropriately?  If so, "Cardenio" would
> >>> show up in the list of "works written" for Shakespeare,
> >> rather than in
> >>> some kind of "lost works" property. This might be fine, I
> >> just wanted
> >>> to raist the question.
> >>>
> >>> Jeff
> >>>
> >>>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------------
> >> ----------
> >>>    *From:* data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
> >>>    [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] *On Behalf
> >> Of *Ed Laurent
> >>>    *Sent:* Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:25 AM
> >>>    *To:* Freebase data modeling mailing list
> >>>    *Subject:* Re: [Data-modeling] Unfinished work / lost work
> >>>
> >>>    How about adding a text field to the bucket to store info
> >>>    associated with why the work was unfinished and/or why there is
> >>>    confusion over what kind of work should be co-typed
> >> (e.g., Jeff's
> >>>    Fitzgerald example). That way we can assess how to better store
> >>>    that information after some unfinished works have been
> >> entered and
> >>>    evaluated for commonalities. While it's good to develop
> >> the schema
> >>>    when the ideas are fresh, this one may benefit from
> >> some notes on
> >>>    how the type is used over time.
> >>>
> >>>    -Ed
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>    On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:36 PM, Jeff Prucher <jeff at metaweb.com
> >>>    <mailto:jeff at metaweb.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>        Could be a candidate for the Media Common domain,
> >> if it's just
> >>>        going to be a
> >>>        bucket. There are lots of unfinished musical works, as well.
> >>>         I assume that
> >>>        Unfinished Work would then also be typed with whatever
> >>>        relevant types (like
> >>>        Written Work) applied, so that you could see the creator,
> >>>        dates, subjects,
> >>>        etc. So would "The Last Tycoon" also be typed as a
> >> Book, even
> >>>        though
> >>>        Fizgerald never published it as such, and may not otherwise
> >>>        have been long
> >>>        enough to even be a book?  I think that would work
> >> for Raymond
> >>>        Chandler's
> >>>        unfinished novel "The Poodle Springs Story", so
> >> that one could
> >>>        assert that
> >>>        Philip Marlowe was one of the characters. Otherwise, I don't
> >>>        see a way to
> >>>        make such an assertion.
> >>>
> >>>        Jeff
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
> >>>        <mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com>
> >>>> [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
> >>>        <mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com>] On
> >> Behalf Of Faye Li
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:48 AM
> >>>> To: data-modeling at freebase.com
> >>>        <mailto:data-modeling at freebase.com>
> >>>> Subject: [Data-modeling] Unfinished work / lost work
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> I'd like to have a "Unfinished Work" type in the
> >> Book domain
> >>>> for capturing unfinished written works. F. Scott
> >> Fitzgerald's
> >>>> "The Last Tycoon" is an example. It's more
> >> interesting when
> >>>> another author finishes the work -- something more common
> >>>> with short stories. Other than that I can't think of any
> >>>> other property this type would have.
> >>>>
> >>>> Along the same line I'd like to have a "Lost Work" type in
> >>>> the Publishing domain to apply to written works that no
> >>>> longer exist. An example here is Shakespeare's "Love's
> >>>> Labour's Won", which is believed to be a sequel to "Love's
> >>>> Labour's Lost".
> >>>>
> >>>> An equivalent type "Lost Artwork" seems to make
> >> sense in the
> >>>> Visual Art domain as well.
> >>>>
> >>>> Anyone else interested in these types? Are they
> >> enough to be
> >>>> types in the commons, or more suitable in bases?
> >>>>
> >>>> -- Faye
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Data-modeling mailing list
> >>>> Data-modeling at freebase.com
> >> <mailto:Data-modeling at freebase.com>
> >>>> http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
> >>>>
> >>>
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> >>>
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