[Data-modeling] Unfinished work / lost work
Robert Cook
robert at metaweb.com
Wed Dec 31 18:47:01 UTC 2008
My rule of thumb in cases like this is that you should always attempt
to coarse-grain classify with a link to a topic type and, if
necessary, include a free-text field for human-readable refinement. I
don't think using just a text field is a good idea. Every time I've
done this, I've grown to regret the decision as I eventually see
patterns emerge. It's always to much work to fix the representation
at that point.
R
On Dec 31, 2008, at 10:36 AM, Phil Gochenour wrote:
> I think that there would only be a couple general categories of
> "cause of loss," like destruction by author, death of author (which
> really an unfinished work, not a lost one), loss by accident, and no
> copies extant. You might need something like "lost in litigation
> limbo" to cover situations like someone dying and their estate not
> releasing a work. If you try to get more specific than a a few
> general categories, then I think Faye's point is an important one,
> in that you begin to lose the structured data. More specific
> information can always be included in the description area.
>
> p
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Prucher" <jeff at metaweb.com>
> To: "Freebase data modeling mailing list" <data-modeling at freebase.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 10:28:05 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada
> Pacific
> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Unfinished work / lost work
>
> A "cause of loss" type might work; more specific information can
> always be
> included in the description.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
>> [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] On Behalf Of Faye Harris
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 6:17 PM
>> To: Freebase data modeling mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Unfinished work / lost work
>>
>> I think a "bucket type" model for "lost work" would be just
>> fine. Would like to see a property for "cause of loss",
>> although I'm not sure what the expected type should be.
>>
>> If a new type were to be created (e.g. "lost work cause"),
>> it'd allow for queries like "find all works lost by fire". On
>> the other hand, if it were left as raw text, more specific
>> info (though less semantically
>> parse-able) can be entered, e.g. "Lost on board the Titantic
>> when it sank", "Damaged beyond repair when recovered from
>> theft by Inspector Clouseau".
>>
>> -- Faye
>>
>>
>> Jeff Prucher wrote:
>>> I've created the "unifinished work" type
>>>
>> (https://www.freebase.com/view/media_common/unfinished_work),
>> and left
>>> it as a bucket for now: I think the co-typing should be pretty
>>> self-explanatory, actually. I would, however, like to find
>> a way to
>>> model attempts to complete these works. The model should be easy (a
>>> property on "unfinished work" called something like "completions by
>>> other hands"), but I'm not sure what to call the expected type.
>>> "Completed unfinished work" would get the point accross,
>> although it
>>> sounds oxymoronic.
>>>
>>> I also have a question about the proposed "lost work" type.
>> Should it
>>> just be a bucket, like "unfinished work", and expect that the
>>> instances will be co-typed appropriately? If so, "Cardenio" would
>>> show up in the list of "works written" for Shakespeare,
>> rather than in
>>> some kind of "lost works" property. This might be fine, I
>> just wanted
>>> to raist the question.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----------
>>> *From:* data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
>>> [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] *On Behalf
>> Of *Ed Laurent
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:25 AM
>>> *To:* Freebase data modeling mailing list
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Data-modeling] Unfinished work / lost work
>>>
>>> How about adding a text field to the bucket to store info
>>> associated with why the work was unfinished and/or why there is
>>> confusion over what kind of work should be co-typed
>> (e.g., Jeff's
>>> Fitzgerald example). That way we can assess how to better store
>>> that information after some unfinished works have been
>> entered and
>>> evaluated for commonalities. While it's good to develop
>> the schema
>>> when the ideas are fresh, this one may benefit from
>> some notes on
>>> how the type is used over time.
>>>
>>> -Ed
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:36 PM, Jeff Prucher <jeff at metaweb.com
>>> <mailto:jeff at metaweb.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Could be a candidate for the Media Common domain,
>> if it's just
>>> going to be a
>>> bucket. There are lots of unfinished musical works, as well.
>>> I assume that
>>> Unfinished Work would then also be typed with whatever
>>> relevant types (like
>>> Written Work) applied, so that you could see the creator,
>>> dates, subjects,
>>> etc. So would "The Last Tycoon" also be typed as a
>> Book, even
>>> though
>>> Fizgerald never published it as such, and may not otherwise
>>> have been long
>>> enough to even be a book? I think that would work
>> for Raymond
>>> Chandler's
>>> unfinished novel "The Poodle Springs Story", so
>> that one could
>>> assert that
>>> Philip Marlowe was one of the characters. Otherwise, I don't
>>> see a way to
>>> make such an assertion.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
>>> <mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com>
>>>> [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
>>> <mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com>] On
>> Behalf Of Faye Li
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:48 AM
>>>> To: data-modeling at freebase.com
>>> <mailto:data-modeling at freebase.com>
>>>> Subject: [Data-modeling] Unfinished work / lost work
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to have a "Unfinished Work" type in the
>> Book domain
>>>> for capturing unfinished written works. F. Scott
>> Fitzgerald's
>>>> "The Last Tycoon" is an example. It's more
>> interesting when
>>>> another author finishes the work -- something more common
>>>> with short stories. Other than that I can't think of any
>>>> other property this type would have.
>>>>
>>>> Along the same line I'd like to have a "Lost Work" type in
>>>> the Publishing domain to apply to written works that no
>>>> longer exist. An example here is Shakespeare's "Love's
>>>> Labour's Won", which is believed to be a sequel to "Love's
>>>> Labour's Lost".
>>>>
>>>> An equivalent type "Lost Artwork" seems to make
>> sense in the
>>>> Visual Art domain as well.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone else interested in these types? Are they
>> enough to be
>>>> types in the commons, or more suitable in bases?
>>>>
>>>> -- Faye
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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