[Data-modeling] A proposal for consumer products
Robert Cook
robert at metaweb.com
Tue Dec 23 20:14:07 UTC 2008
Products are an example of "arbitrary hierarchies". That is, each
product category, and sometimes, companies that work within those
categories, have different approaches to hierarchical organization.
Some are well defined industry-wide for a particular product category,
such as cars, which have preset levels of abstraction: Make, model,
model-year, trim level, which are exactly replicated in Freebase. So
do books, DVDs and other media (through some variation of the Work-
Expression-Manifestation-Item scheme). But most products don't.
The tension here, I think, is trying to create something very general,
yet powerful, like a "consumer product" type that tries to capture
brand (or manufacturer) / product line / product hierarchies.
I'm now coming to realize that what I did with computers and operating
systems was probably the right direction. A more specific type is
more "forward compatible" -- that is, I could add properties to a
computer model line that is specific to computers. It's also easier
for data contributors to understand. Abstract types tend to throw
people off.
But the bigger question is why go generic at all? How often will
people query for "all consumer products"? And if they do, will they
want to compare product lines for computers to those of
refrigerators? This seems like a very unlikely use case that carries
a high expense.
So my big question is: Why have a generic product type?
R
On Dec 23, 2008, at 11:39 AM, evening0star wrote:
> I don't know what the right answer is, but this is obviously a
> complex topic. I decided to look up various products and see how
> they do in terms of "brand name", company, etc.
>
> I think it is fair to say that we'd want to capture the company that
> ultimately owns a product. Procter & Gamble (P&G) owns the Crest
> toothpaste line, Siemens AG owns the various Siemens appliances, P&G
> also owns the Charmin toilet paper line.
>
> That said, I think these items are treated a bit differently. Take
> Crest, which is a brand of P&G. Crest not only has toothpaste, but
> also toothbrushes, floss, mouthwash, etc. And then within each of
> these are more specific products, and potentially product lines (for
> example, the "Pro-Health" line of toothpastes). http://www.crest.com/
>
> Appliances, however, don't line up as easily. Take Siemens and GE,
> who both make refrigerators. GE has a couple of different lines
> (which they call Brands), like GE Profile, GE Monogram, etc: http://www.geappliances.com/products/brands/
> . So if we use GE Profile, you'll see that there are side-by-side
> refrigerators, top-freezer models, etc. And then within those
> categories you have specific products, or models, like the "GE
> Profile 42" Built-In Side-by-Side Refrigerator with Dispenser" model
> # PSB42YSXSS, and there's another one "GE Profile™ 42" Built-In Side-
> by-Side Refrigerator with Dispenser" but model # PSB42YGXSV.
>
> Siemens, however, doesn't seem to have multiple models per type of
> refrigerator (for lack of a better way to put it). They have a 36"
> counter-depth, a 36" french door, etc: http://www.siemens-home.com/Appliances-Kitchen-Cooking_Refrigerators-Freezers
> .
>
> Then take a look at Mitsubishi Electric's home theater TVs: http://mitsubishi-tv.com
> . These are similar to Siemens in that they have more than one
> model for a "46" Diamond Premium Flat Panel TV".
>
> Of course there's also software, and Adobe is an "easy" example. http://www.adobe.com/products/
>
> And, frankly, I'm afraid to look into food products! :) Though I
> can give you one example I ran into the other day: Vermont Smoke &
> Cure is a food brand that is owned by Farmer's Diner, and has
> various products within the Smoke & Cure name (here's a link to
> their bacon: http://www.vtsmokeandcure.com/bacon-natural-c-249.html).
>
> So I hope these examples help people think about modeling this
> area. What is the brand for each of these, versus the product,
> versus the company, versus specific models, etc. And then maybe we
> can start referencing specific examples so we can talk on the same
> page (like brand).
>
> evening
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 8:55 PM, Robert Cook <robert at metaweb.com>
> wrote:
> OK, I think we're trying to represent the "brand" more than the
> branding. Apple, Dell, Chevrolet, Mentos, Levalor are all brands.
> Some (perhaps all?) are companies, but that's a co-type on the same
> topics.
>
> I should have been clearer about Apple as designer, which although
> often is the same as the brand (if it's a company or . I don't
> think that's part of brand at all. That's probably a property into
> itself (should one want to split that far.) Several car models have
> designers who are recognizable people.
>
> R
>
> On Dec 22, 2008, at 1:28 PM, evening0star wrote:
>
>> Well, there's a brand, and then there's branding. The branding on
>> Chevrolet has changed over the years (colors and fonts used, tag
>> lines, logos,etc), but the brand/division/product of Chevrolet
>> hasn't in the sense that it hasn't changed names, still is
>> basically the same kind of product, etc.
>>
>>
>> > Apple is the brand for the Macbook They are also the designer.
>> They are definitely not the manufacturer.
>>
>>
>> We have to be careful between brand and company. "Apple Inc" is
>> the company that makes/designs/owns these products. A brand can't
>> design things - it is a representation of a company or product/
>> service.
>>
>> Are we having fun yet?? :)
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 4:17 PM, Tim Kientzle <tim at metaweb.com>
>> wrote:
>> Some of the clearest examples come from the car industry: "Chevrolet"
>> is a brand owned by the General Motors Corporation. "Chevrolet" is
>> not a company nor is it a particular product. (But, of course,
>> "Suburban" is also a brand, as is "General Motors Corporation." The
>> identity is not the same as the product or company, even when it has
>> the same name. The White Knight should have been in advertising. ;-)
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> On Dec 22, 2008, at 1:01 PM, Kirrily Robert wrote:
>>
>> > On Dec 22, 2008, at 12:46 PM, Mohammad Al-Ubaydli wrote:
>> >
>> >> Sorry if I am ignorant on this but would "Brand" be better than
>> >> "manufacturer"? I am guessing you already went through this with
>> >> your business guys and was just hoping to learn why the still
>> expect
>> >> manufacturer.
>> >
>> > I'd better let a marketing person explain it, but as I understand
>> it,
>> > a brand is a marketing device and is not the same as the company.
>> >
>> > Wikipedia describes brands as: "A brand is a collection of symbols,
>> > experiences and associations connected with a product, a service, a
>> > person or any other artefact or entity." So for instance, the Coca
>> > Cola brand involves red and white colours, the swoopy logo, the
>> phrase
>> > "Enjoy Coca Cola", and so on.
>> >
>> > See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_(business)
>> > for example.
>> >
>> > K.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Kirrily Robert
>> > Freebase Community Director
>> > kirrily at metaweb.com
>> > http://freebase.com/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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