[Data-modeling] Add page number(s) to "Quotation"
Jeff Prucher
jeff at metaweb.com
Thu Dec 4 00:54:07 UTC 2008
If all you need to cite are articles, technical reports, and the like, I'd
suggest punting the book edition problem entirely for this use case.
Jeff
_____
From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
[mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] On Behalf Of Ed Laurent
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 4:26 PM
To: Freebase data modeling mailing list
Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Add page number(s) to "Quotation"
Great suggestions. However, linking to book edition is not an option for
journal articles. In fact, "Book edition" doesn't even include "Written
work". This has been a thorny issue for me for other reasons too and I'm
slowly understanding why "Book edition" is modeled this way but it seems to
make properties such as "Cited quotation" impossible(?) to apply to all
written works.
Maybe a generic "Cited quotation" type could be implemented as a property of
all written works if it had separate "Written work cited" and "Book edition
cited" properties... ?
-Ed
On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 7:06 PM, Tadhg O'Higgins <tadhg at metaweb.com> wrote:
+1 for this suggestion of Jeff's.
Perhaps a Cited Quotation type, with all properties delegated from
Quotation other than a References property?
Actually, it's possible that the best way to do this would be to create
the Citation type that Tim suggested, have that take Book Edition (plus
page number, etc.), and then give Cited Quotation type a property that
accepted multiple Citation instances, so that e.g "There is no calamity
greater than lightly engaging in war." would have all the properties it
does here:
http://www.freebase.com/view/guid/9202a8c04000641f800000000519187c
plus additional links to a CVT pointing to
http://www.freebase.com/view/guid/9202a8c04000641f8000000009a0b66b and a
page number.
Tadhg
Jeff Prucher wrote:
> You could create your own type, but delegate the relevant properties
> in from the quotation commons type. This would feed your quotes into
> the quotations commons, but allow you to add properties specific to
> your needs.
>
> Jeff
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
> [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] *On Behalf Of *Ed Laurent
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 03, 2008 3:19 PM
> *To:* Freebase data modeling mailing list
> *Subject:* Re: [Data-modeling] Add page number(s) to "Quotation"
>
> Nope, I actually want to store quotes from published sources. I've
> talked with several editors who saw no legal issues with quoting a
> couple sentences (let me know if this is not the case and I'll
> stop). I want to do this because the quote gives more context to a
> bibliographic reference than the citation. It is also useful when
> a publication does not have an abstract.
>
> -Ed
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 5:52 PM, Tim Kientzle <tim at metaweb.com
> <mailto:tim at metaweb.com>> wrote:
>
> Ed,
>
> Sounds like what you're looking for might be better described as a
> "citation"
> or a "bibliographic reference." Agree that there's overlap
> between
> that and
> the informal use of the term "quotation," but given the different
> usages, it
> may make sense to distinguish them.
>
> Tim Kientzle
>
> On Dec 3, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Ed Laurent wrote:
>
> > Um, I'm interpreting your responses as that I should create
> my own
> > quotation type. Most of the sources I want to quote (e.g.,
> journal
> > articles, technical reports) are only published once.
> >
> > I agree that page number isn't appropriate for the cases you
> suggest
> > but it is for mine and I try to use common types whenever
> possible.
> > There have been other situations where I've argued the other
> side of
> > properties needing to apply to all instances of types so this
> > conversation has taken a somewhat amusing turn.
> >
> > For now I guess I'll just model my own quotation type and try to
> > keep it similar to the common one in case there are
> suggestions for
> > merging them later.
> >
> > Thanks!
> > -Ed
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Jeff Prucher
> <jeff at metaweb.com <mailto:jeff at metaweb.com>> wrote:
> > I agree -- page number isn't really applicable here.
> Technically,
> > since we
> > do have distinct types for book editions, it would be
> possible to
> > link the
> > source to a book edition, rather than to a book, but this
> seems like
> > a bad
> > idea. For one, it would be very hard to simply find all the
> quotes
> > from a
> > single book, since they might be spread across multiple
> editions.
> > But for
> > non-book works (plays, poems, essays, articles, etc.), a
> page number
> > would
> > be completely meaningless, since we do not have first-class
> topics
> > for every
> > appearance of these types of works.
> >
> > The reason we used "author" as the name of the property is
> because
> > we're
> > looking for the person who authored what was said (whether
> it was
> > written or
> > spoken impromptu), rather than the person who said it.
> Although, it
> > must be
> > said, this is still a problem with movie and TV quotes, so
> maybe it
> > doesn't
> > really make a difference in that regard.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
> <mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com>
> > > [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
> <mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com>] On Behalf Of
> > > Kirrily Robert
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 1:54 PM
> > > To: Freebase data modeling mailing list
> > > Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Add page number(s) to "Quotation"
> > >
> > > Wouldn't page number be dependent on edition? On what page
> > > does Alice's "Curiouser and curiouser!" appear, for example?
> > >
> > > K.
> > >
> > > On Dec 3, 2008, at 1:15 PM, Ed Laurent wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm thinking of using the "Quotation" type to store
> quotes from
> > > > published works but need a page number property because
> > > page numbers
> > > > are often required when citing quotations. It appears
> that the
> > page
> > > > number of the quote would need to be added as a
> > > disabiguator so that
> > > > this data can be entered when the "Quotation" type is
> linked as a
> > > > property of another type. Does this seem reasonable?
> > > >
> > > > I also see that "Author" (linked to "Quotations" property of
> > > > "Person") is a property of "Quotation", and I'm assuming
> > > that is for
> > > > instances when the quotation is not from a published source.
> > > > Otherwise, it is adding denormalization. If this is the
> > > case, wouldn't
> > > > another name be more appropriate than "Author" (e.g.,
> > > "Quoted person")
> > > > to distinguish it from "Author" of quoted publications?
> > > >
> > > > -Ed _______________________________________________
> > > > Data-modeling mailing list
> > > > Data-modeling at freebase.com
> <mailto:Data-modeling at freebase.com>
> > > > http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
> > >
> > > --
> > > Kirrily Robert
> > > Freebase Community Director
> > > kirrily at metaweb.com <mailto:kirrily at metaweb.com>
> > > http://freebase.com/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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