[Data-modeling] Newspaper circulations

Thu Aug 21 00:03:12 UTC 2008

> -----Original Message-----
> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com 
> [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] On Behalf Of Faye Li
> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 4:39 PM
> To: Freebase data modeling mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Newspaper circulations
> 
> I didn't even look at Magazine. ;)
> 
> It just seems that other than "what it is" labels conveyed 
> through the name of "Newspaper", "Magazine", "Journal", etc., 
> most of their properties are common to the Periodical level. 
> Sure, some newspapers may have a daily vs. Sunday circulation 
> figures, but that to me is a weak argument for not having 
> circulation at the Periodical level. After all, not all 
> newspapers have the same publication frequency, and for some, 
> neither "daily" nor "Sunday" circulation figures apply to them.

I dunno; it seems to me that putting circulation and price on newspaper
allows for greater precision. Without the "edition" property, the figures
are going to be meaningless for a lot of papers. But the property is
completely meaningless for magazines and journals.  Note also that journal
already has two price properties, one for institutions and one for
individuals.  So in terms of the price property at least, I don't think it
can be generalized.

And bear in mind that I didn't bother to put every possible type of
newspaper edition in the enumerated list (if we don't go with this model,
we'd have to delete them all!), so we can have however many Newspaper
Edition Type topics we need.

> A similar comparison is that poems, books, etc. share common 
> properties that are beautifully extracted to the Written Work 
> level. I think the same method can be applied here. For 
> example, Periodical already has a Language property, which 
> makes the Language property of Magazine unnecessary.

Oops!  Thanks for catching that -- I'll get that fixed.

Jeff

> On the 
> other hand, Newspaper has a Price property (or two) that I 
> think should be modified and promoted to the Periodical level 
> so that Magazines and Journals can indicate what they charge as well. 
> Perhaps that's a separate discussion.
>
> I did say I like the CVT conversion you suggested. Would it 
> make you happy to repeat it? ;)
> 
> -- Faye
> 
> 
> Jeff Prucher wrote:
> >
> >   
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >>     
> > Faye Li wrote:
> >   
> >> First of all, I like the improved Newspaper type. Both prices and 
> >> circulation numbers are much easier to read as part of CVTs.
> >> Now, looking over the /en/san_francisco_chronicle topic in the old 
> >> schema with Periodical cotype, I must confess I find some of the 
> >> division of properties confusing and surprising.
> >> Newspaper has a Circulation property, but Periodical doesn't. 
> >>     
> >
> > Circulation figures are on Newspaper (and Magazine and 
> Journal) rather 
> > than Periodical because magazines and journals don't have different 
> > circulations for different editions.
> >
> >   
> >> Circulation now references
> >> editions: "Daily", "Sunday", yet there's no reference to 
> frequency of 
> >> issues, which is a property of Periodical.
> >>     
> >
> > I'm not sure I follow you -- why should there be a second 
> reference to 
> > frequency of issues if there's already a property for it on 
> periodical?
> > That said, it might be worth having a property for editions on the 
> > Newspaper type itself, and not just the CVTs
> >
> >   
> >> Newspaper has a Owner property, whereas Periodical has a Publisher 
> >> property. Why?
> >>     
> >
> > Why are they two properties, or why are they named differently?  I 
> > think there's value in being able to differentiate 
> "Newspapers owned" 
> > from "Magazines published", although you could also extract 
> that from 
> > the types of the things being owned or published.  I would say that 
> > neither way of doing it is wrong, though.  Why they have different 
> > names I'm less sure about -- probably, I just copied the 
> nomenclature 
> > of the Wikipedia infoboxes, but whether this is actually the best 
> > terminology, I'm not really sure.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >   
> >> To be honest I can easily see all of Newspaper's 
> properties move into 
> >> Periodical.
> >>
> >> -- Faye
> >>
> >>
> >> Jeff Prucher wrote:
> >>     
> >>> Based on this discussion (<URL:
> >>>
> >>>       
> >> 
> http://www.freebase.com/discuss/threads/book#/guid/9202a8c04000641f80
> >> 0
> >>     
> >>> 000000
> >>> 8dd9130>, I've posted a revision to the model for newspaper 
> >>> 8dd9130>circulations and
> >>> prices.  The current model has separate properties for
> >>>       
> >> "daily circulation"
> >>     
> >>> and "Sunday circulation", and likewise for prices.  My
> >>>       
> >> proposed change
> >>     
> >>> turns these into CVTs -- one for circulation and one for 
> price. The 
> >>> CVTs include a property for "edition", which expects a new type 
> >>> (Newspaper Edition Type) that will hold the "Sunday",
> >>>       
> >> "Daily", "Evening", etc. values.
> >>     
> >>> The properties are currently living on a type in a private
> >>>       
> >> domain; if
> >>     
> >>> people like them, I'll move them over to the commons 
> Newspaper type.
> >>>
> >>> https://www.freebase.com/view/user/jeff/newspaper
> >>>
> >>> You can compare the old and new views here:
> >>> https://www.freebase.com/view/en/san_francisco_chronicle
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Jeff Prucher
> >>> Type Librarian & Ontologist
> >>> Metaweb Technologies
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Data-modeling mailing list
> >>> Data-modeling at freebase.com
> >>> http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
> >>>
> >>>   
> >>>       
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