[Data-modeling] Non-profits, once more with feeling

Faye Li faye at metaweb.com
Tue Aug 12 18:31:51 UTC 2008


I like it (or did, until sandbox got blown away).

-- Faye


Jeff Prucher wrote:
> Here's a revised model:
> http://tinyurl.com/6emfhs
>
> Note that there's an error in the schema, which is that the "designation"
> property is non-unique.  I'll fix that before putting anything on
> production, of course.
>
> Note also that "registered with" is non-unique because in some countries,
> orgs have to register at the state/provincial level, rather than the
> national.
>
> Let me know what you think.
>
> Jeff 
>
>   
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com 
>> [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Prucher
>> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 3:02 PM
>> To: 'Freebase data modeling mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Non-profits, once more with feeling
>>
>> The UK and Canada definitely have their own classification 
>> systems; I imagine most places do. It occurs to me that we 
>> could do what they did in the business domain for "industry" 
>>     
> -- there's one type ("Industry") that includes both free-form > user-entered
> (or Wikipedia-extracted) topics like "Oil" and 
>   
>> also the NAICS industry hierarchy. And I think there are 
>> plans to load other industrial taxonomies. So we could have a 
>> "Sector" type that included NTEE-CC and other standard 
>> taxonomies as well as free-form topics.
>> The problem with this, though, is that as Tim points out, the 
>> NTEE stuff is really non-profit specific but there might be 
>> other types of organizations that have a sector.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>     
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
>>> [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] On Behalf Of Kirrily 
>>> Robert
>>> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 2:01 PM
>>> To: Freebase data modeling mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Non-profits, once more with feeling
>>>
>>> NTEE-CC seems to be US-only.  Do we have any thoughts on making it 
>>> internationally applicable?
>>>
>>> K.
>>>
>>> On Aug 8, 2008, at 12:39 PM, Tim Kientzle wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> I was indeed thinking of putting "sector" on "organization", but 
>>>> that's clearly inappropriate for existing taxonomies with
>>>>         
>>> restricted
>>>       
>>>> application.  It would make sense for the NTEE-CC property to be 
>>>> associated with the "non-profit" tag, although I would
>>>>         
>>> suggest being
>>>       
>>>> more specific with the property name: "NTEE-CC sector" 
>>>>         
>> rather than 
>>     
>>>> just "non-profit sector."
>>>>
>>>> Whether it makes sense to separate "endowment" properties 
>>>>         
>> depends a 
>>     
>>>> lot on the data at the other end of that link.  If there are 
>>>> endowments that fund a variety of types of entities, then putting 
>>>> "endowment" on an "Endowed Entity" type does simplify 
>>>>         
>> cross-domain 
>>     
>>>> queries.  I can't say I know enough about endowments to be sure.
>>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 8, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Jeff Prucher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> I like Faye's suggestion, too, and I'm looking into other
>>>>>           
>>> countries
>>>       
>>>>> to see what kind of patterns there are.  And thanks for
>>>>>           
>>> catching the
>>>       
>>>>> duplicate "geographic scope" property on organization.
>>>>>
>>>>> In terms of sector, are you proposing that it go on
>>>>>           
>>> "organization",
>>>       
>>>>> instead?
>>>>> It's sort of the organizational equivalent to "industry",
>>>>>           
>>> so I could
>>>       
>>>>> imagine it going there.  (That said, taxonomies like the
>>>>>           
>>> NTEE-CC are
>>>       
>>>>> explicitly for non-profits, so linking to them from another type 
>>>>> might be semantically weird, assuming of course that they have 
>>>>> compatible licenses.) In terms of endowments, what type 
>>>>>           
>> would you 
>>     
>>>>> propose putting that property on?
>>>>> "Endowed
>>>>> entity"?  I guess I don't see how the having an
>>>>>           
>>> "endowment" property
>>>       
>>>>> on the "College/University" type precludes an 
>>>>>           
>> "endowment" property 
>>     
>>>>> being on "Non-profit organization".
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
>>>>>> [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] On Behalf Of Tim 
>>>>>> Kientzle
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 6:09 PM
>>>>>> To: Freebase data modeling mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Non-profits, once more with feeling
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Faye makes a good point.  It seems quite possible that the only 
>>>>>> property of "non-profit" would be the tax framework under
>>>>>>             
>>> which it's
>>>       
>>>>>> recognized (e.g., "US Government 501(c)(3)").  Every
>>>>>>             
>>> other property
>>>       
>>>>>> of your proposed "non-profit" type applies to things
>>>>>>             
>>> other than non-
>>>       
>>>>>> profits:  Harvard has an endowment, the Organization 
>>>>>>             
>> type already 
>>     
>>>>>> has a "Geographic scope," and there are philanthropic and/or 
>>>>>> charitable organizations that are not non-profit but to
>>>>>>             
>>> which your
>>>       
>>>>>> "non-profit sector" classification would still apply.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2008, at 5:15 PM, Faye Li wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> Technically a non-profit is just an organization that's not 
>>>>>>> commercially motivated. :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Legally though, the term has very specific definitions
>>>>>>>               
>>> in the US,
>>>       
>>>>>>> state-defined definitions, actually, which means a CA-based
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> nonprofit
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> may very well not qualify as a "non-proft" under say,
>>>>>>>               
>>> Montana state
>>>       
>>>>>>> law. To sort through the state-to-state discrepancy the
>>>>>>>               
>>> IRS has the
>>>       
>>>>>>> final say on nationally recognized non-profit
>>>>>>>               
>>> organizations through
>>>       
>>>>>>> section 501(c) codes. There are over a million
>>>>>>> (!) of them registered with the IRS today. Even 1% of that
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> data will
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> make a nice chunk in Freebase. :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But that's besides the point, which is: a non-profit has a
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> privileged
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> status which has to be qualified by the system that
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> recognizes it as a
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> non-profit, much as a protected site needs to specify the
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> park system
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> under which it is protected. Without that data, or at least
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> a property
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> to input that data, the claim of being a non-profit
>>>>>>>               
>>> becomes...well,
>>>       
>>>>>>> unqualified, and legally weak.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kirrily, I'll have to check out your charities domain. :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- Faye
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kirrily Robert wrote:
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> Not all non-profits take donations.  However, I have
>>>>>>>>                 
>>> been modeling
>>>       
>>>>>>>> charities in a domain of my own (/user/skud/charities) and
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>> I've got
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>> properties for religious affiliation as well as geographical 
>>>>>>>> focus.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> K.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2008, at 3:27 PM, Alexander Marks wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>> How about a Religious Affiliation property? Applies to any 
>>>>>>>>> organization, I guess, but seems especially relevant for
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>> those that
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>> take donations.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Al
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Jeff Prucher" <jeff at metaweb.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "Freebase data modeling mailing list"
>>>>>>>>> <data-modeling at freebase.com
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2008 9:24:29 PM (GMT) Europe/London
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Data-modeling] Non-profits, once more with feeling
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I sent a note about this a couple weeks ago, and received no 
>>>>>>>>> responses. I'm figuring that either things are slow
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>> because it's
>>>       
>>>>>>>>> summer (in the Northern Hemisphere anyway) or that nobody
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>> cares much
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>> about this schema one way or another.  Just in case it's
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>> the former,
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>> I'm reposting my non-profit organization schema to
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>> sandbox; if it's
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>> for the latter reason, I'll go ahead and upload the
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>> schema at my
>>>       
>>>>>>>>> leisure. :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>> https://sandbox.freebase.com/type/view/organization/non_profit_organ
>>>       
>>>>>>>>> ization
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's pretty basic; it includes the types Organization
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>> (to get the
>>>       
>>>>>>>>> board members and parent/child organizations, among other
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>> things),
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>> and Employer.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jeff Prucher
>>>>>>>>> Type Librarian & Ontologist
>>>>>>>>> Metaweb Technologies, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Data-modeling mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Data-modeling at freebase.com
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
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>>>>>>             
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>>>>         
>>> --
>>> Kirrily Robert
>>> Freebase Community Director
>>> kirrily at metaweb.com
>>> http://freebase.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>       
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