[Data-modeling] Awards refactoring

Thu Apr 17 19:34:27 UTC 2008

I've created the new "award" type and switched the keys around, and I'm
crossing my fingers that nobody's code was broken! 

Jeff 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com 
> [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Prucher
> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 5:09 PM
> To: 'Freebase data modeling mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Awards refactoring
> 
> I'm going to go ahead and make these changes (rename "award" 
> to "award category", add a new type "award", and switch the 
> keys around) on Thursday of this week (4/17). Please jump up 
> and down and shout loudly if this will break any code that 
> you're using.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jeff Prucher 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
> > [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] On Behalf Of 
> Jeff Prucher
> > Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 11:08 AM
> > To: 'Freebase data modeling mailing list'
> > Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Awards refactoring
> > 
> > Logically, I'd say that either class of awards can be 
> called "award", 
> > and common use, even by the awards presenters, supports this. But I 
> > think common usage also supports refering to the specific awards as 
> > "categories". Some
> > evidence:
> > 
> > http://www.oscar.com/nominees/ (note "jump to a category" in left 
> > column) http://www.worldcon.org/hc.html 
> > http://www.pulitzer.org/history.html (search for the word
> > "category") http://www.emmys.org/awards/awardsearch.php
> > 
> > I couldn't find any other names for the general award type 
> other than 
> > just "award".
> > 
> > Jeff P.
> > 
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
> > > [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] On Behalf Of Kirrily 
> > > Robert
> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 7:00 PM
> > > To: Freebase data modeling mailing list
> > > Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Awards refactoring
> > > 
> > > I don't know.  I think of a "category" as a grouping of
> > things rather
> > > than a specific thing.  Therefore, I would think that
> > "Academy Award" 
> > > was a category of award, and "Academy Award for Best Actor" 
> > would be a
> > > specific award.
> > > 
> > > K.
> > > 
> > > ----- "Faye Li" <faye at metaweb.com> wrote:
> > > > Jeff - I can't believe you remember my suggesting this --
> > > but that's
> > > > great! :)
> > > > 
> > > > In general I agree with you that type key changes should
> > be avoided
> > > > and any change should be made backward-compatible. The
> > > exception I'm
> > > > evidently more open to, is when keeping the same key in the
> > > interest
> > > > of backward compatibility unintentionally but 
> unabashedly causes 
> > > > forward
> > > > 
> > > > confusion. I can just imagine future discussion threads
> > from users
> > > > puzzled over the fact that the "Award" Type has the key 
> > > > "/award/<insert some weird name here>" while "Award
> > > Category" has the
> > > > key "/award/award", and then some old-timer from the
> > community will
> > > > have to explain, sheepishly, the "legacy" schema and 
> > > > backward-compatibility policy that together produced 
> this awkward 
> > > > design.
> > > > 
> > > > So my practical question is, hypothetically, if the type
> > > key were to
> > > > be changed to a more logical name, would that break
> > anyone's code? 
> > > > Please
> > > > 
> > > > speak up if this would affect you. I see a trade-off between 
> > > > supporting our current community now and avoiding
> > confusing future
> > > > users (which dare I say number much higher than they do
> > > now...), and I
> > > > think to evaluate that, the missing piece of information
> > of actual
> > > > impact of a
> > > > 
> > > > key change must be known.
> > > > 
> > > > -- Faye
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Jeff Prucher wrote:
> > > > > I'm cross-posting to the developers list because this proposal
> > > > touches on
> > > > > the type keys in the awards domain, which might affect
> > developers.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is a problem in the current awards schema. There is
> > > no way to
> > > > group
> > > > > categories of awards together under the same general 
> award. For
> > > > example,
> > > > > there are topics for every Academy Award category 
> (best picture,
> > > > best
> > > > > original screenplay, etc.) of type "award", but there
> > is no way to
> > > > assert
> > > > > that all these awards are the same sort of award. So if
> > > you want to
> > > > know
> > > > > which picture has won the most Academy Awards, you 
> have to query
> > > > against
> > > > > every academy award topic, do some kind of string
> > matching against
> > > > the topic
> > > > > name, or go by the awarding organization. (This last
> > one wouldn't
> > > > work,
> > > > > actually -- different Nobels are technically awarded by
> > different
> > > > groups,
> > > > > and some organizations sponsor multiple awards.)
> > > > >
> > > > > So I'm proposing (well, this was Faye's idea, really)
> > > that we add a
> > > > new type
> > > > > that will connect to both "award" and "award presenting
> > > > organization". This
> > > > > would ordinarily be a very simple thing to do. The
> > problem is with
> > > > the
> > > > > nomenclature. From a practical standpoint, the new type
> > (i.e., for
> > > > the
> > > > > general "Academy Award") should be called simply
> > "award", and the
> > > > old type
> > > > > (i.e., for the specific category, "Academy Award for 
> Best Foo")
> > > > should be
> > > > > renamed "award category". I'm pretty satisfied with 
> making that
> > > > change, but
> > > > > I'd like to hear other suggestions.
> > > > >
> > > > > My main concern with the naming I'm proposing is that the
> > > type keys
> > > > might be
> > > > > a problem. The type "award category" (formerly known as
> > > "award") has
> > > > a key
> > > > > of /award/award. The new type "award" can't use that,
> > > since keys are
> > > > unique,
> > > > > so it would have to have some weirdly-named key. This 
> is doable,
> > > > just
> > > > > inelegant and probably confusing to anyone who tries to write
> > > > queries using
> > > > > the keys. The alternative would be to move the
> > /award/award key to
> > > > the new
> > > > > "award" and create a new key for "award category", but
> > this would
> > > > completely
> > > > > break any code that uses this schema, which is not
> > > something I'm too
> > > > keen on
> > > > > doing.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Academy Awards (type = award):
> > > > > http://sandbox.freebase.com/view/en/academy_awards
> > > > >
> > > > > Academy Award for Best Director (type = award category):
> > > > > 
> > > 
> http://sandbox.freebase.com/view/en/academy_award_for_best_director
> > > > >
> > > > > The Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences (type= award
> > > > presenting
> > > > > organization)
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> http://sandbox.freebase.com/view/en/academy_of_motion_picture_arts_and
> > > > _scien
> > > > > ces
> > > > >
> > > > > Thoughts on how best to proceed?
> > > > >
> > > > > Jeff Prucher
> > > > > Type Librarian & Ontologist
> > > > > Metaweb Technologies, Inc. 
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Data-modeling mailing list
> > > > > Data-modeling at freebase.com
> > > > > http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
> > > > >
> > > > >   
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > Data-modeling at freebase.com
> > > > http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Kirrily Robert
> > > Freebase Community Director
> > > kirrily at metaweb.com
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Data-modeling mailing list
> > > Data-modeling at freebase.com
> > > http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
> > > 
> > 
> > 
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