[Data-modeling] Awards refactoring

Tue Apr 15 00:09:14 UTC 2008

I'm going to go ahead and make these changes (rename "award" to "award
category", add a new type "award", and switch the keys around) on Thursday
of this week (4/17). Please jump up and down and shout loudly if this will
break any code that you're using.

Thanks,
Jeff Prucher 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com 
> [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Prucher
> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 11:08 AM
> To: 'Freebase data modeling mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Awards refactoring
> 
> Logically, I'd say that either class of awards can be called 
> "award", and common use, even by the awards presenters, 
> supports this. But I think common usage also supports 
> refering to the specific awards as "categories". Some
> evidence:
> 
> http://www.oscar.com/nominees/ (note "jump to a category" in 
> left column) http://www.worldcon.org/hc.html 
> http://www.pulitzer.org/history.html (search for the word 
> "category") http://www.emmys.org/awards/awardsearch.php
> 
> I couldn't find any other names for the general award type 
> other than just "award".
> 
> Jeff P.
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com
> > [mailto:data-modeling-bounces at freebase.com] On Behalf Of Kirrily 
> > Robert
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 7:00 PM
> > To: Freebase data modeling mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [Data-modeling] Awards refactoring
> > 
> > I don't know.  I think of a "category" as a grouping of 
> things rather 
> > than a specific thing.  Therefore, I would think that 
> "Academy Award" 
> > was a category of award, and "Academy Award for Best Actor" 
> would be a 
> > specific award.
> > 
> > K.
> > 
> > ----- "Faye Li" <faye at metaweb.com> wrote:
> > > Jeff - I can't believe you remember my suggesting this --
> > but that's
> > > great! :)
> > > 
> > > In general I agree with you that type key changes should 
> be avoided 
> > > and any change should be made backward-compatible. The
> > exception I'm
> > > evidently more open to, is when keeping the same key in the
> > interest
> > > of backward compatibility unintentionally but unabashedly causes 
> > > forward
> > > 
> > > confusion. I can just imagine future discussion threads 
> from users 
> > > puzzled over the fact that the "Award" Type has the key 
> > > "/award/<insert some weird name here>" while "Award
> > Category" has the
> > > key "/award/award", and then some old-timer from the 
> community will 
> > > have to explain, sheepishly, the "legacy" schema and 
> > > backward-compatibility policy that together produced this awkward 
> > > design.
> > > 
> > > So my practical question is, hypothetically, if the type
> > key were to
> > > be changed to a more logical name, would that break 
> anyone's code? 
> > > Please
> > > 
> > > speak up if this would affect you. I see a trade-off between 
> > > supporting our current community now and avoiding 
> confusing future 
> > > users (which dare I say number much higher than they do
> > now...), and I
> > > think to evaluate that, the missing piece of information 
> of actual 
> > > impact of a
> > > 
> > > key change must be known.
> > > 
> > > -- Faye
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Jeff Prucher wrote:
> > > > I'm cross-posting to the developers list because this proposal
> > > touches on
> > > > the type keys in the awards domain, which might affect 
> developers.
> > > >
> > > > There is a problem in the current awards schema. There is
> > no way to
> > > group
> > > > categories of awards together under the same general award. For
> > > example,
> > > > there are topics for every Academy Award category (best picture,
> > > best
> > > > original screenplay, etc.) of type "award", but there 
> is no way to
> > > assert
> > > > that all these awards are the same sort of award. So if
> > you want to
> > > know
> > > > which picture has won the most Academy Awards, you have to query
> > > against
> > > > every academy award topic, do some kind of string 
> matching against
> > > the topic
> > > > name, or go by the awarding organization. (This last 
> one wouldn't
> > > work,
> > > > actually -- different Nobels are technically awarded by 
> different
> > > groups,
> > > > and some organizations sponsor multiple awards.)
> > > >
> > > > So I'm proposing (well, this was Faye's idea, really)
> > that we add a
> > > new type
> > > > that will connect to both "award" and "award presenting
> > > organization". This
> > > > would ordinarily be a very simple thing to do. The 
> problem is with
> > > the
> > > > nomenclature. From a practical standpoint, the new type 
> (i.e., for
> > > the
> > > > general "Academy Award") should be called simply 
> "award", and the
> > > old type
> > > > (i.e., for the specific category, "Academy Award for Best Foo")
> > > should be
> > > > renamed "award category". I'm pretty satisfied with making that
> > > change, but
> > > > I'd like to hear other suggestions.
> > > >
> > > > My main concern with the naming I'm proposing is that the
> > type keys
> > > might be
> > > > a problem. The type "award category" (formerly known as
> > "award") has
> > > a key
> > > > of /award/award. The new type "award" can't use that,
> > since keys are
> > > unique,
> > > > so it would have to have some weirdly-named key. This is doable,
> > > just
> > > > inelegant and probably confusing to anyone who tries to write
> > > queries using
> > > > the keys. The alternative would be to move the 
> /award/award key to
> > > the new
> > > > "award" and create a new key for "award category", but 
> this would
> > > completely
> > > > break any code that uses this schema, which is not
> > something I'm too
> > > keen on
> > > > doing.
> > > >
> > > > The Academy Awards (type = award):
> > > > http://sandbox.freebase.com/view/en/academy_awards
> > > >
> > > > Academy Award for Best Director (type = award category):
> > > > 
> > http://sandbox.freebase.com/view/en/academy_award_for_best_director
> > > >
> > > > The Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences (type= award
> > > presenting
> > > > organization)
> > > >
> > > 
> > 
> http://sandbox.freebase.com/view/en/academy_of_motion_picture_arts_and
> > > _scien
> > > > ces
> > > >
> > > > Thoughts on how best to proceed?
> > > >
> > > > Jeff Prucher
> > > > Type Librarian & Ontologist
> > > > Metaweb Technologies, Inc. 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Data-modeling mailing list
> > > > Data-modeling at freebase.com
> > > > http://lists.freebase.com/mailman/listinfo/data-modeling
> > > >
> > > >   
> > > 
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> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Kirrily Robert
> > Freebase Community Director
> > kirrily at metaweb.com
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Data-modeling at freebase.com
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> > 
> 
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